Rivenburgh Wine (Hill Country)

[00:00:06] Howdy Vine Trippers, I wanted to take just a moment to talk to you about the Texas Wine Lover website and their phone app for both iPhones as well as Google devices.

[00:00:16] You can actually download this app, put it on your phone or just go to the website if you're not an app person.

[00:00:22] And if you ever want to go visit some of these great locations that we've been talking about in the podcast, this will give you a great information about the place before you go.

[00:00:30] And you'll be able to find other wineries in the area.

[00:00:33] So if you want to make a day of it, go see several other places as well.

[00:00:37] You can search by region.

[00:00:38] You can sort the listings, find ones that are kid friendly, family friendly, even ones that host RVs.

[00:00:44] All kinds of different sortable listings you can find there in that app and on the website.

[00:00:49] You can find other things as well in the area like restaurants, accommodations, maybe events that are going on at the different wineries.

[00:00:56] So it's your one-stop resource that goes hand in hand with this podcast to be able to find those great places to go visit.

[00:01:04] So check out the Texas Wine Lover website.

[00:01:07] It's txwinelover.com or go to their app.

[00:01:11] You can find it on the Google Play Store or the Apple Store as well.

[00:01:14] Enjoy your trips among the vines and use that app.

[00:01:17] Welcome to Texas Under Vine, an exploratory podcast to scout out the best Texas wine country has to offer.

[00:01:47] I'm your wine guide, Scott, and I'm here to lead you on an auditory expedition to the vineyards and wineries across the great Lone Star State.

[00:01:56] Each episode will cover a different vineyard, winery, or wine-related business operating in Texas.

[00:02:01] You'll hear interviews, descriptions, and details about each location that will excite you to visit and experience them for yourself.

[00:02:09] Ready to plan a wine tour?

[00:02:10] Use these episodes to choose the most interesting spots for you and your friends to check out.

[00:02:15] Most of all, enjoy hearing about the rapidly growing wine industry in the state and what makes our wines and wineries the best.

[00:02:35] Howdy, fellow vine tripper.

[00:02:37] Welcome to episode 52 of the Texas Underwine podcast.

[00:02:41] This is the anticipated season finale of the successful season two of the podcast.

[00:02:47] I will be taking a short break during the month of December to spend time with family and friends during the holidays.

[00:02:54] But I'll be back in January with some great new episodes for season three.

[00:02:58] But right now we have the culmination of season two here with episode 52.

[00:03:03] And I'm excited to bring this big one to you today.

[00:03:06] So during my time, I was able to travel down to Kerrville, Texas,

[00:03:11] and interview John Rivenberg of Rivenberg Wine.

[00:03:15] So John has had his hand in a lot of different things, as you will find out.

[00:03:20] But he has his own label of wines that he makes personally called Rivenberg Wine.

[00:03:25] And he has a tasting room for that.

[00:03:27] So I wanted to take you there and to hear from him and to learn a little bit about his tasting room and his wines.

[00:03:33] Now, John has been making wine for almost two decades now.

[00:03:38] He is a true Texan.

[00:03:40] Spent most of his time in the Hill Country.

[00:03:42] He was born in San Antonio and has lived in this area as a true passion and heart for Texas,

[00:03:47] and especially the Central Texas area and the Hill Country.

[00:03:50] And he was actually part of the founding of Bending Branch Winery in Comfort, Texas,

[00:03:56] along with Dr. Bob Young.

[00:03:57] They actually started that winery there and partnered together.

[00:04:02] John was the winemaker.

[00:04:03] And they were on the cutting edge of technology as they researched things like cryomaceration and flash detente

[00:04:11] and things like that in the winemaking process.

[00:04:13] You can hear more about that in my episode 23, where I interviewed Dr. Young about Bending Branch.

[00:04:18] But John was there and a part of all of that right there on the bleeding edge of advanced winemaking techniques

[00:04:25] and making incredible wines.

[00:04:27] And while he was there at Bending Branch, he was also part of helping to plant a variety or a few varietals

[00:04:34] that were the first plantings in Texas, like, for instance, Pickpul Blanc.

[00:04:39] He was a part of that.

[00:04:40] He also was a part of championing some more lesser known varietals

[00:04:45] that are now becoming even more popular, like Tanat and Shoes Out.

[00:04:49] So John left Bending Branch in 2015, and he was kind of dabbling making some wines on his own,

[00:04:57] what would become Ribenberg Wines.

[00:04:58] But he was asked to do some consulting.

[00:05:00] So he began starting consulting using his experience with many other wineries

[00:05:05] and began to build what is now an incubator program,

[00:05:09] where John helps brand new people who are getting into the wine industry here in Texas

[00:05:14] to get up and running and started and has launched many wineries in the central Texas,

[00:05:20] a hill country area, many that you've actually heard on this podcast.

[00:05:25] John has had a hand in helping to create and get those wineries up and going from the start.

[00:05:30] And for several years, John made his own wines, his Ribenberg Wines.

[00:05:34] It's more of a cult-style wine, wherever he could get some tank space from friends

[00:05:39] and things like that as he kind of made these different varietals and different wines for that brand.

[00:05:44] But in 2019, they took over Kerville Hills Winery, and that gave him a more permanent location

[00:05:51] to not just make his own wines for Ribenberg Wines and for Kerville Hills Winery.

[00:05:56] It had also provided a great launching point for many of these other wineries

[00:06:00] that are in the incubator program that John has developed here.

[00:06:03] So that kind of became their base of operations there in Kerville

[00:06:06] and became the home of Ribenberg Wine as well.

[00:06:10] So it no longer roamed around to multiple wineries.

[00:06:13] It was based there out of that Kerville Hills Winery there in Kerville.

[00:06:16] Now, forwarding the story a little bit further, he was actually approached by Shriner University

[00:06:21] there in Kerville.

[00:06:23] They wanted to start a viticulture-type program, and they made an arrangement

[00:06:27] to plant a small trial vineyard there on the site of Shriner University

[00:06:33] and start teaching some classes on viticulture and enology and things like that there.

[00:06:38] And so they decided to, as part of this process, move the Kerville Hills Winery

[00:06:43] through this program with Shriner into an old mansion that was on the campus

[00:06:49] not far from that vineyard that they have planted there,

[00:06:52] where now Kerville Hills makes its home.

[00:06:54] And they do all of their work and things out of that particular location for Kerville Hills.

[00:06:59] But that let the old location kind of abandon, not sure what to do there.

[00:07:03] So John decided through some friends to turn that into his home for Ribenberg Wines.

[00:07:09] So it now has its own permanent tasting room,

[00:07:12] its own permanent place there in the old Kerville Hills Winery building,

[00:07:16] which is actually just a little bit north of Kerville, a few miles north.

[00:07:19] And that's now Ribenberg Wines.

[00:07:22] Now, in addition to the Ribenberg Wines that you'll get in that tasting room,

[00:07:26] they also host Hill Country Spirits, which is a distiller.

[00:07:29] And they have all kinds of spirits that you can taste there.

[00:07:32] Some really cool things.

[00:07:33] John will talk a little bit about it in the interview, so you can hear more about that.

[00:07:36] So if spirits are more your thing than, say, wine, you'll be able to taste that when you go.

[00:07:41] As well as one of his incubator projects, Nobleman Wines,

[00:07:45] actually has a small tasting room there on site as well.

[00:07:48] So when you go to this location, you get to taste Ribenberg Wine,

[00:07:52] you get to taste those Hill Country Spirits,

[00:07:54] and you can go right over there and taste Nobleman Wines there if you'd like to as well.

[00:07:58] So when I went to visit, after walking around the tasting room and checking things out a little bit,

[00:08:03] John showed up.

[00:08:04] He came straight from a vineyard that he was doing some consulting at

[00:08:07] and led me back through the production facilities to an office where we were able to sit down.

[00:08:12] And I was able to pick his brain just a little bit to hear him talk all things Texas wine,

[00:08:18] to hear about some of the wines he's making, these projects that he's had a hand in.

[00:08:24] Conversation to hear from him.

[00:08:25] So why don't we just hear from him?

[00:08:27] Let's go to that interview.

[00:08:35] All right, fine trippers, welcome to this episode now that we're going to hear at Ribenberg Wine.

[00:08:41] And we're going to be talking to John Ribenberg, the owner, proprietor, and namesake of this winery.

[00:08:47] And we're going to hear about some amazing things that he's doing for Texas wine,

[00:08:51] for many wineries throughout the state, and kind of tap into his knowledge

[00:08:56] and tell you about this great location to come visit here soon.

[00:08:59] So let's see.

[00:09:00] John, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

[00:09:04] Well, I'm entering into the tail end of my second decade of winemaking in Texas.

[00:09:11] It's been a heck of a ride.

[00:09:13] It's had its challenges, it's had its wins, it's had its losses.

[00:09:18] You were just telling me that you coached for a lot of years football.

[00:09:22] So I played football as a lot of kids do.

[00:09:25] So my analogies usually center around football and cooking and then a little bit of wine.

[00:09:34] Okay.

[00:09:34] And so those around me are like, really, another sports analogy?

[00:09:38] Like, really, another one?

[00:09:39] I'm like, that's what I...

[00:09:39] More sports ball.

[00:09:41] It's what I know, man.

[00:09:42] Yeah, exactly.

[00:09:43] It's like, well, it's the only thing I know how to relate things.

[00:09:45] But I've been very lucky to be in this industry and survive it for all these years.

[00:09:54] I love it more than just about anything in this world, except for maybe my kiddos.

[00:10:00] It's amazing, man.

[00:10:01] It's great to be on the front lines of what's happening.

[00:10:07] It's a little hard for me to figure out how I became the old sage winemaker when I still

[00:10:14] feel like I'm very much on the progressive cutting edge of what's happening.

[00:10:18] But I am that guy, right?

[00:10:21] So I'm a multi-generation San Antonian.

[00:10:25] Okay.

[00:10:25] Grew up in San Antonio.

[00:10:27] I was born there, raised in and around the hill country.

[00:10:33] Got a lot of family history and background in this area.

[00:10:38] You know?

[00:10:40] Man, I love what I do.

[00:10:44] Probably the biggest thing people don't know, I'm a process nerd.

[00:10:46] I love wine, but I love the process.

[00:10:50] It's the process of and the magistrate that comes behind growing something, tending it,

[00:10:57] producing it, taking it and altering it into something else that then you get to share with

[00:11:03] people.

[00:11:04] And then that family enjoyment around it.

[00:11:06] I love that process.

[00:11:08] The process from planting to growing to producing to sharing.

[00:11:12] And then what that family communal part of it means is super important to me.

[00:11:17] That's my...

[00:11:17] Sitting around the table with friends with wine.

[00:11:19] Yeah, that is...

[00:11:20] Knowing the birth of that wine from the ground to the glass.

[00:11:23] Yeah, or enjoying one that you are learning about at the same time, right?

[00:11:26] All of it.

[00:11:27] Like, that's...

[00:11:28] I just...

[00:11:28] I love the...

[00:11:29] You know, I love the story that every wine bottle tells.

[00:11:33] Because every wine bottle is completely different.

[00:11:37] Completely different.

[00:11:38] They're never the same bottle of wine open at the same time.

[00:11:41] Well, what led you into the wine industry?

[00:11:43] How did you get your start there?

[00:11:44] Oh, man.

[00:11:45] I wish I had some really cool story around, like, I interned in France and I fell in love

[00:11:51] with, you know, Syrah and...

[00:11:53] You know?

[00:11:55] It, quite honestly, was an adventure into all the things that I was already kind of good

[00:12:04] at, right?

[00:12:05] Like, to be a good wine producer, a winemaker, you kind of got to be good at a lot of different

[00:12:10] things.

[00:12:11] It truly is the jack-of-all-trades job, right?

[00:12:15] Especially in a region like Texas.

[00:12:17] When I got started, you know, we didn't have anybody that would sell us equipment.

[00:12:21] So, we were building and designing our own equipment.

[00:12:23] Like, there wasn't like...

[00:12:25] Yeah.

[00:12:25] There wasn't a vendor's vault or a P&L Specialties or a...

[00:12:29] You know, now we have all of these, you know, all these different equipment suppliers, like,

[00:12:33] setting up shop in Texas and wanting to be part of what we're doing.

[00:12:36] Well, back then, we couldn't get them to return a call.

[00:12:38] You were bootstrapping it.

[00:12:39] You were bootstrapping it.

[00:12:40] You had to...

[00:12:40] You know, so I'm kind of partly an engineer, partly a builder, partly a plumber, partly a...

[00:12:45] You know?

[00:12:45] And so, I kind of had a background of those abilities.

[00:12:51] I'm a pretty decent palate.

[00:12:53] I grew up around some wine on my dad's side of the family.

[00:12:57] My grandmother drank wine at home and, you know, and she's a Spaniard.

[00:13:03] And so, we, you know, we enjoyed wine in that regard, right?

[00:13:06] So, I kind of had this, like, underlying background of enjoying it, but it was never something

[00:13:10] I ever imagined I would go into as a career, right?

[00:13:14] Truly.

[00:13:15] I never thought in my wildest dreams I would be a winemaker.

[00:13:19] And so, yeah, I had the opportunity to get into wine.

[00:13:24] That was when I helped found Bending Branch Winery with Bob Yum.

[00:13:30] That was many, many years ago.

[00:13:34] And so...

[00:13:35] They're in comfort.

[00:13:35] They're in comfort.

[00:13:36] Yeah, yeah.

[00:13:37] So, you know, it's no secret.

[00:13:40] Allison is my ex-wife and Bob's my former business partner and former father-in-law.

[00:13:45] Great people.

[00:13:47] You know, we have, you know, Bob's grandkids are my kids.

[00:13:52] So, there's a lot of interesting history and development there.

[00:13:56] And so, I, you know, having the ability to go in there and just kind of go wild with all

[00:14:02] the things that we wanted to do and develop.

[00:14:04] But we had, Bob and I had some pretty crazy ideas about how wine should be handled in Texas

[00:14:10] and how it should be developed.

[00:14:12] And, you know, all the way from Bob bringing me a, you know, an article about cryomaceration

[00:14:18] and us getting it translated into English from French and then me figuring out how to actually

[00:14:22] make it work, right?

[00:14:24] And to, you know, helping build the flash detents and all the things and just theoretical ideals

[00:14:29] around wine and wanting to do it better.

[00:14:30] It was great.

[00:14:31] So, that was, you know, I cut my teeth for, I don't know, nine, ten years developing that place.

[00:14:39] And then...

[00:14:39] And that really speaks to your process-driven side of understanding that process and making it happen.

[00:14:44] Yeah.

[00:14:44] Or their process-driven side because I built a lot of those processes.

[00:14:47] Yeah.

[00:14:47] So, but that, you know, I'm also, as much as I am the guy that is, was a pretty successful

[00:14:56] high school athlete and at very much the same time, the guy that's like, well, hit it with

[00:15:00] a hammer to make it work.

[00:15:01] I'm also kind of a huge nerd, right?

[00:15:04] So, a lot of people don't pick that up when they're around me.

[00:15:08] But then when you get around me a while, they're like, oh man, John really is a big nerd.

[00:15:11] You know, we're not in my primary, like we're not in my primary office, but at home there's

[00:15:16] probably 500 books on, you know, wine and chemistry and mechanics and everything else

[00:15:21] around my desk.

[00:15:23] And so, yeah, I just, you know, we got to do some really cool stuff.

[00:15:28] We got to bring varietals to the state that are now, well, I like to, it blows my mind

[00:15:32] that they're kind of commonplace, you know?

[00:15:35] We planted the first people blanc in the state of Texas.

[00:15:38] Yum.

[00:15:39] Yeah.

[00:15:39] Many years ago, we were not the first to plant Tanaught, but we were certainly the first

[00:15:44] to make Tanaught what it is.

[00:15:46] Yeah.

[00:15:47] You know, there were a couple other people doing Tanaught, but we, Bob and I, really championed

[00:15:51] pushing that varietal out into the world.

[00:15:54] And I still am a firm believer that that is a varietal that we should be growing all over

[00:16:00] central Texas.

[00:16:02] This verdict's out on my end on whether or not we should be growing in the high plains

[00:16:05] because it's cold hardiness, but central Texas for sure.

[00:16:09] Is that because those are typically, the Piccoult Blanc and Tanaught are typically southern,

[00:16:15] kind of mid to southern French.

[00:16:16] So a little more warmer climate like we have here.

[00:16:19] Yeah.

[00:16:19] It wasn't an accident that they were picked, right?

[00:16:22] I mean, you know, we were looking at the health benefits of Tanaught and the, you know, and

[00:16:27] the climate application of, you know, these Piccoult Blanc and Vermentino.

[00:16:34] And I was the champion of Chiselle that I learned about, you know, a few years after we opened

[00:16:39] that place.

[00:16:40] And so there was no accident.

[00:16:44] We were very much, you know, we were very much on the cutting edge of climate change.

[00:16:50] Uh, that's another thing that people don't know about me.

[00:16:53] We managed, uh, everything organically.

[00:16:57] We've been, uh, we've been organically minded for a very long time.

[00:17:01] I, uh, I wrote a, uh, I wrote a protocols around SIP certification back in 2013, uh, that we

[00:17:11] tried to get, uh, set up and applied, but we were just too, too darn busy to get a SIPs

[00:17:15] program up and running.

[00:17:16] But now we've got Colleen Miles that's working on that kind of stuff.

[00:17:19] And so we were, we were early day, uh, and that's sustainability.

[00:17:23] Sustainability.

[00:17:24] Yeah.

[00:17:24] So we were, we were early days, uh, sustainably minded, right?

[00:17:27] So we were looking for hot weather varietals many, many years ago.

[00:17:31] Um, and, and I think we've done a pretty good job bringing a lot of those to Texas.

[00:17:35] Um, and I've carried that through my whole career and I'll talk about it because it's

[00:17:39] just the way I navigate my winemaking style and my growing style and my, uh, and the way

[00:17:45] I apply things.

[00:17:46] Right.

[00:17:46] So I don't, I don't go out and talk about how I'm the, you know, but I've been doing

[00:17:49] it.

[00:17:49] I've been growing grapes like that 20 years, right?

[00:17:52] Like long before anybody else was thinking about those things, we were, we were doing

[00:17:55] it.

[00:18:01] We were doing it.

[00:18:01] Um, you know, uh, we were using soil moisture monitors.

[00:18:05] We still do long before anybody else, you know, uh, we're doing it.

[00:18:09] And so it's been a funny curiosity to me to see all of a sudden that this thing that I

[00:18:12] used to be laughed out of rooms because of, it got to where Bob and like Ron Yee.

[00:18:16] So they wouldn't sit next to me because people were like, God, he's crazy.

[00:18:19] All he talks about is sustainability and how we can do it better and different.

[00:18:22] And, you know, I'd get, you know, laughed out of rooms.

[00:18:25] And, um, now it's kind of like, it's, it's what people are talking about.

[00:18:29] Right.

[00:18:30] So, uh, I guess I was country when country wasn't cool.

[00:18:33] So, yeah.

[00:18:35] And then, so you talked about your time there at Bending Branch and then tell me about your,

[00:18:40] your progression from there.

[00:18:42] So, so 2015, I left Bending Branch.

[00:18:44] Okay.

[00:18:44] Um, and I, uh, I decided to dedicate myself to, uh, all things Texas.

[00:18:51] Okay.

[00:18:52] Um, I made and drew a line in the sand for myself that I, if we were ever going to be

[00:18:58] taken seriously as a region, we needed to be working hard and doing the due diligence

[00:19:04] around developing Texas as a wine region.

[00:19:07] Okay.

[00:19:08] And so, um, all that being said, I wasn't sure how the hell I was going to do that,

[00:19:13] but that's what I wanted to do for myself.

[00:19:16] I had, I had committed to myself that like, I, whatever I do moving forward is going to

[00:19:20] be all dedicated to a hundred percent Texas and developing Texas to our developing Texas

[00:19:25] typicity and developing Texas as multiple regions, because we are multiple regions.

[00:19:30] We are not one place.

[00:19:32] We get pigeonholed into one box that is like saying, you know, everybody from Bordeaux

[00:19:37] should make the same wines as the people from Burgundy.

[00:19:39] And it's just, it's laughable.

[00:19:40] Right.

[00:19:40] So, uh, you know, I started to go out and I entertained offers.

[00:19:44] I had some folks wanting, you know, I had some folks giving opportunities to invest in partner

[00:19:49] and building some big giant wineries.

[00:19:51] And I had already kind of done that building bending branch.

[00:19:54] I just, I wasn't at a point where I wanted to jump right back into mass production or, or

[00:19:59] anything like that.

[00:20:00] Um, and my phone started ringing.

[00:20:02] Okay.

[00:20:02] And, uh, you know, I got a call from, uh, uh, uh, first, first three phone calls I got.

[00:20:11] Um, and it tickles me.

[00:20:12] It was one was Dr.

[00:20:13] Smith, uh, Tony Smith and Aaron Smith.

[00:20:16] Uh, they're the, the patriarch matriarch of Fab Astor's winery.

[00:20:21] Um, and, uh, Tony was like, you know, uh, Hey, uh, I saw your press release.

[00:20:25] You're leaving bending branch.

[00:20:27] And I'm like, yeah, I'm going to go on endeavor and some other things.

[00:20:29] And he goes, yeah, we want to start a winery.

[00:20:31] You ever thought about consulting?

[00:20:32] And I was like, well, let me know, but you know, I, I, I don't know anything about consulting,

[00:20:37] but I guess we'll figure it out as we go.

[00:20:38] Uh, and that was, uh, early 2015.

[00:20:43] Okay.

[00:20:43] Um, and so I had, you know, all the way up until, uh, 22 vintage.

[00:20:49] They were folks that I worked pretty regularly with.

[00:20:51] Uh, lovely family got to, you know, meet Mike and Kristen.

[00:20:55] And then behind that, uh, John and Debs Holloman called me and I helped start 1851.

[00:20:59] Okay.

[00:21:00] Um, and, uh, from there, the mindset and model of the incubator was already kind of like growing

[00:21:08] and building.

[00:21:09] Um, and it was interesting to me that we needed, you know, I didn't have the ability to build

[00:21:16] a place at that time.

[00:21:17] Like I did.

[00:21:17] I just didn't.

[00:21:18] It takes a lot of money to build a winery and, uh, yeah, but I kept getting phone calls.

[00:21:22] People still wanted to open wineries and people still wanted to plant grapes and people still

[00:21:25] wanted to know what to plant.

[00:21:27] And, you know, I think they wanted to kind of work towards breaking some of the code that

[00:21:31] we put together at Benny branch.

[00:21:32] Right.

[00:21:32] So they wanted to know like what, what made that magic.

[00:21:35] And, um, and I think a lot of people learned that just,

[00:21:39] blindingly hard work is what makes that magic a lot of times.

[00:21:42] And so that's how that started.

[00:21:44] Um, so we, so I started, uh, you know, started a consulting firm.

[00:21:49] Okay.

[00:21:49] Um, and in that consulting firm, I was very lucky.

[00:21:52] I got to do, um, I got to do some work in Texas.

[00:21:55] I got to do some work, uh, process work outside the state.

[00:21:59] Um, I had some folks that I had met in my days, uh, bending branch that, um, asked me about,

[00:22:07] you know, working in, in, uh, the West coast.

[00:22:09] And it's, you know, I have, it's one person who's really funny.

[00:22:12] It's like, well, I got a fantastic winemaker.

[00:22:14] That's an amazing eonologist, but they can't figure out how to get trucks from the vineyard

[00:22:17] here and unloaded in a timely manner.

[00:22:19] Can you help them figure that out?

[00:22:20] That's something we know very well.

[00:22:22] Like, yes, I know logistics very well.

[00:22:24] And then, and then to their credit, their winemaker is amazing.

[00:22:27] And he's still, he's amazing.

[00:22:29] Uh, fantastic winemaker.

[00:22:31] Mine was just not built around logistics.

[00:22:33] Right.

[00:22:34] And, uh, you know, I mean, I always joke 50% of winemaking is, is logistics and project

[00:22:40] management.

[00:22:41] It really is.

[00:22:42] I mean, if you can manage, if you can manage any project, you could probably manage a winemaking

[00:22:47] facility.

[00:22:48] Right.

[00:22:48] So a lot of GMs that I've met over the years are really good project managers.

[00:22:52] Brett Pernell, who is at Becker, whatever, great project manager.

[00:22:55] Um, uh, anyway, so, you know, moving forward, we, we started, uh, you know, just build

[00:23:03] more wineries and add more folks and, uh, adding to my, my, my band of crazy people wanting

[00:23:11] to get into the wine business and, uh, moving forward.

[00:23:14] You know, I remember going out to Abastris and being in the field when there was, there

[00:23:18] was absolutely nothing.

[00:23:19] Right.

[00:23:20] And, uh, you know, we're like talking about how to place the tasting room and how to play,

[00:23:24] you know, that was that beautiful spot was like a cedar break, right?

[00:23:28] There was a cedar break and a hayfield behind it was just now a vineyard and a beautiful

[00:23:32] tasting room.

[00:23:32] Uh, and now the winery.

[00:23:35] Um, and so there was just, there was just a lot of that, right?

[00:23:38] Um, Texas heritage and Colossi, uh, Nara's up there.

[00:23:44] I'm sure I'm going to forget.

[00:23:45] I'm going to forget some of you that was, we were primarily involved with, but, um,

[00:23:50] there were a lot.

[00:23:51] Yeah.

[00:23:51] And it's been, it's been a downhill run ever since just trying to catch my feet all the

[00:23:56] time.

[00:23:56] Yeah.

[00:23:57] And for some of those, you still do production on site here, here at Kerrville?

[00:24:01] Um, none of those operations do we still do.

[00:24:05] Okay.

[00:24:05] Yeah.

[00:24:06] Um, Abastris left in 22.

[00:24:09] Um, we have, we still, uh, from time to time, we pick up an odd project here, there for people.

[00:24:16] Um, but it's generally something that they either want to try in a new programming or they, um,

[00:24:24] how can I say, they, they don't want to bring it in house.

[00:24:27] Yeah.

[00:24:28] Yeah.

[00:24:28] And so we, they, they offset it.

[00:24:30] Um, but all of those places are doing all their own production and, and operation.

[00:24:34] Graduated.

[00:24:35] They've graduated.

[00:24:36] Yeah.

[00:24:37] Uh, they've graduated.

[00:24:38] And so we've got, um, oh, I don't know, I guess like five folks now.

[00:24:44] Okay.

[00:24:44] Um, we're talking to a couple new people that are looking at doing some startups.

[00:24:48] Yeah.

[00:24:48] Um, but we're, we're really laser focusing in on just, just the kind of the fun winemaking

[00:24:55] quality that we get to do here.

[00:24:56] So we're, we're looking at quality over quantity.

[00:25:00] Um, and we always kind of have, um, and you know, we've got a, we've got a great team.

[00:25:05] We've got some really great, uh, port tree sellers.

[00:25:08] Um, they're in high Janet, Mark Merchant.

[00:25:11] Um, they're great.

[00:25:13] They've been here with us now three years.

[00:25:15] Um, and we're making just some lights out wine.

[00:25:17] Uh, uh, Lysa Christopher kind of got their feet started here, uh, also, and they're doing

[00:25:24] some fun things with sparkling obviously.

[00:25:26] Um, and so, yeah, it's been, it's been fun.

[00:25:28] It's been real fun to see like the, you know, the Texas monthly, you know, ultimate case

[00:25:32] of wine.

[00:25:33] And it's a lot of folks that I helped incubate in their winters.

[00:25:38] Right.

[00:25:38] And, uh, and you know, those things are, those things are great to watch people that you,

[00:25:43] you know, at times you annoy at times you drive, you push, right.

[00:25:47] At times you push times, you hug and love them.

[00:25:50] And, and, uh, it's fun to see them go out and succeed and win.

[00:25:53] And so that's what we've been doing, man.

[00:25:55] In 2019, we had the opportunity to, uh, to jump in here.

[00:26:00] Um, Wayne and Carol Millberger, uh, fantastic people.

[00:26:04] They, they, they're the, they're the great bit.

[00:26:07] They're the greatest business partners you could have.

[00:26:09] Right.

[00:26:09] Like they wanted to retire.

[00:26:10] They gave us an opportunity to be able to purchase the winery and through all the ups

[00:26:15] and downs around the economy and around the pandemic, they've been beyond supportive.

[00:26:19] Uh, and you know, we wouldn't be here doing this work for Texas without Wayne and Carol

[00:26:25] Millberger.

[00:26:26] Just be quite honest.

[00:26:27] Um, the, the economy would have already, you know, shut this place down and we've been

[00:26:31] looking for other things to do.

[00:26:32] So, um, yeah, that's, that's kind of thousand foot view in a nutshell.

[00:26:38] Well, it's been interesting because I know of at least four of those that you mentioned,

[00:26:41] um, Abastris and, uh, Texas, uh, Heritage Colisey and Alexa Christopher.

[00:26:48] We, uh, interviewed last season on the podcast.

[00:26:51] Oh yeah.

[00:26:51] Great operations is great wines to taste there.

[00:26:54] So to see your, that influence that you've been able to have in so many different successful

[00:26:58] wineries as a tribute.

[00:27:00] So, yeah, it's been fun, man.

[00:27:02] I mean, there's, you know, uh, there's a lot more that we've been involved with.

[00:27:06] There's a lot more we've been involved with.

[00:27:08] Yeah, sure, sure.

[00:27:08] Um, you know.

[00:27:09] You said close to 50 before we were talking earlier.

[00:27:11] Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:12] I mean, between consulting, building vineyard and, and all around startup, it's probably

[00:27:16] about 50.

[00:27:18] Startup from the ground up, I would say it's closer to like 21.

[00:27:22] Okay.

[00:27:22] Um, a lot of folks don't know.

[00:27:24] I, I mean, you know, we built like 1851, which turned into, which turned into slate mill,

[00:27:30] which turned into invention.

[00:27:31] Yeah.

[00:27:32] So we, you know, we started that place.

[00:27:34] Uh, I came down the highway and I spent three years developing Augusta Vin.

[00:27:39] So for Scott Felder, I literally took that from a hayfield to what you see now.

[00:27:44] A gorgeous place.

[00:27:45] It is a gorgeous place.

[00:27:46] I, you know, it's funny.

[00:27:47] If we were in my office, you'd see the blueprints.

[00:27:50] Is there in my office?

[00:27:50] Oh, cool.

[00:27:51] Yeah.

[00:27:51] So there's, you know, that's the, that's the funny thing that'll make the books one day

[00:27:54] is like the blueprints of the place that I hand draw, you know, that I hand drew and

[00:27:58] those kinds of things.

[00:27:58] But, um, yeah, no, that place is beautiful.

[00:28:01] We built a, we built a gorgeous place, built a, built an amazing vineyard.

[00:28:04] I mean, if you look at the varietals that are planted in that vineyard, there's no denying

[00:28:08] who planted that, who put that together.

[00:28:10] Um, you know, Scott and his family were, were, you know, have a really great vision and they're

[00:28:15] doing a really good job.

[00:28:16] Place is beautiful.

[00:28:17] Um, yeah, it's nice to have right down the road from you.

[00:28:20] Well, what then led you to then Curvo Hills and then now Rivenberg Wines?

[00:28:27] So Rivenberg Wine has been around for a long time, actually.

[00:28:30] So Rivenberg Wine was started in 2015.

[00:28:32] Um, it was, uh, I kind of want to say it was probably Ron, uh, uh, Ron Yates that was like,

[00:28:39] man, you got to continue to make wine.

[00:28:41] And I was like, nah, I'm just going to consult.

[00:28:43] He's like, no, you, you need to make wine.

[00:28:44] Oh, it was Ron and Mike Baytech, uh, Baytech also.

[00:28:48] I met him.

[00:28:48] It was like, yeah, I met him.

[00:28:50] It was like, dude, you gotta, you gotta continue to make wine.

[00:28:51] Well, we'll help you.

[00:28:52] Well, you know, we'll, you know, so Mike helped me out quite a bit with a, with a

[00:28:55] place to do that.

[00:28:56] Um, you know, I had some wines made that I took with me from Bending Branch and Mike helped

[00:29:01] me, you know, have a place to bottle them and set them up.

[00:29:03] And so Mike was very helpful to me at that point in time in my life.

[00:29:06] The wrong was very integral and pushing me as a friend to continue to, to be a, you

[00:29:12] know, a winemaker or have a brand.

[00:29:13] And, uh, so Rivenberg Wine, uh, quite honestly, has been around since the end of 2014, beginning

[00:29:19] of 2015.

[00:29:20] Yeah.

[00:29:21] It's just been kind of a little cult brand that I haven't really, you know, it hadn't

[00:29:25] been my, my driving force.

[00:29:27] Right.

[00:29:27] Um, so 2019, we had the opportunity to come and, uh, take over Kerrville Hills.

[00:29:32] Okay.

[00:29:32] Um, in that we've had just some really great opportunities.

[00:29:36] Like we just, you know, they haven't all been money-making opportunities, but they've

[00:29:40] been great opportunities for Texas wine, for what we do.

[00:29:44] So being able to start the incubator with having a brick and mortar along with the consulting

[00:29:48] world and start a true, you know, shared use facility here has been paramount.

[00:29:54] Right.

[00:29:54] Um, moving forward, I started in discussions around trying to train workforce.

[00:30:00] Okay.

[00:30:01] With China University.

[00:30:02] And, um, they were, they're all in.

[00:30:05] They're like, man, John, these are, this is a great idea.

[00:30:08] Let's, let's put in a little vineyard.

[00:30:10] Let's start doing some teaching.

[00:30:11] So we started a program called Venus das Colinas.

[00:30:14] We had our first graduating class this year.

[00:30:17] Um, and two folks, but you got to start somewhere, right?

[00:30:20] Yeah, sure.

[00:30:21] Um, and so that's been fun, but in doing that partnership, we had an opportunity to, um,

[00:30:28] partner with Shriner on moving the Kerrville Hills brand into an old mansion on the campus,

[00:30:36] which happens to be real close to the little teaching vineyard that we put in.

[00:30:40] Um, and it, it's been awesome.

[00:30:43] It's 120, it's 122 year old home.

[00:30:46] Uh, that was, uh, was built, sorry, 120, cause it was built in 1904.

[00:30:50] Okay.

[00:30:51] Um, and it, it's beautiful, big verandas.

[00:30:54] Uh, and so we moved the Kerrville Hills brand into, into that, that spot location in town.

[00:31:00] We thought it's Kerrville Hills.

[00:31:03] It should be in Kerrville, not three miles outside of town.

[00:31:06] Right.

[00:31:06] So, but in doing that again, friends, uh, went, man, if you're going to do that, you,

[00:31:13] you ought to make your tasting room up at the production house, uh, for Rivenberg.

[00:31:18] Yeah.

[00:31:19] Put the Rivenberg label out there, make it a tasting room.

[00:31:21] Yeah.

[00:31:22] And I was like, ah, you know, believe it or not, a lot of people think that I would like

[00:31:27] stand up and, you know, shout great things from the rooftops just to hear myself talk.

[00:31:33] But in reality, I really am not always that like, um, outwardly exuberant about things.

[00:31:40] Right.

[00:31:40] And so I was like, I don't know, man, I, you know, you know, we're making great things

[00:31:44] up here.

[00:31:45] And, um, some of that's, I'm very vocal in a lot of ways, but I've also very guarded and

[00:31:50] quiet in others.

[00:31:51] Okay.

[00:31:51] And so, um, you know, sometimes I feel like that, that, and people are probably gonna

[00:31:57] listen to this.

[00:31:57] So you're going to see like a universal eye roll when I say this, um, that like the guarded

[00:32:04] nature around like the tasting side.

[00:32:07] Right.

[00:32:08] Um, I don't mind.

[00:32:09] I'll get up in front of anybody and argue about what we should be doing for Texas wine

[00:32:13] and how we should grow Texas fruit and what varietals should be there and how people should,

[00:32:17] you know, be, uh, you know, authentic and doing a hundred percent Texas.

[00:32:21] I have no problem doing that and how I've been a champion for that.

[00:32:25] I have no problem.

[00:32:26] But at the same time, I have a hard time going like, yeah, but my wine's the best and you

[00:32:30] should drink my wine.

[00:32:31] I have a hard time with it.

[00:32:33] And believe it or not, I mean, if people are gonna argue, they're gonna, like I said,

[00:32:35] you're gonna have a universal eye roll when that comes out, but that is the truth.

[00:32:39] Um, and so Rivenberg wine, I was kind of pushed out of my comfort zone by some folks around

[00:32:45] me to, to start Rivenberg wine as a tasting room.

[00:32:48] It's like, we've got it.

[00:32:50] The hell are we going to do with it?

[00:32:51] You might as well sell Rivenberg wine in here.

[00:32:54] Um, and, uh, yeah.

[00:32:56] So, so we started to do the brand change, uh, this last year.

[00:33:01] We didn't have any money, right?

[00:33:02] Quite honestly, like we didn't have any money.

[00:33:03] We were losing money, but it was like, well, we know, if we've got a tasting room, we might

[00:33:07] as well try to figure out how to, you know, might as well try to figure out how to utilize

[00:33:10] it.

[00:33:10] Right.

[00:33:11] And, uh, so here we are.

[00:33:13] Yeah.

[00:33:13] So Rivenberg's front and center and, and this old, in the old Curve of Hills tasting room.

[00:33:18] Okay.

[00:33:18] So this was the location for Curve of Hills before.

[00:33:21] This was Curve of Hills going back to 2008.

[00:33:23] Yeah.

[00:33:23] So this, this property, this is Curve of Hills winery, um, where it was established in 2008.

[00:33:28] Okay.

[00:33:28] Um, this is the production center, the, that Wayne, Wayne Milger built, Wayne Milberger built.

[00:33:34] We've made some adjustments and some little alterations, but no, this is, this is the Curve of Hills

[00:33:38] facility and we have since turned it into, into, um, you know, it'll always be that.

[00:33:44] Oh, sure.

[00:33:44] It will always be that.

[00:33:46] But, but we, uh, we, and all the Curve of Hills wines are still made here.

[00:33:50] Okay.

[00:33:50] Yeah.

[00:33:51] Yeah.

[00:33:51] So that's the tasting houses in town, but we still produce all the Curve of Hills wines

[00:33:55] here.

[00:33:55] Um, and so, uh, yeah, it was like, well, we might as well go ahead and do this.

[00:34:02] And so, yeah.

[00:34:02] And so here we are.

[00:34:03] Yeah.

[00:34:05] So serving wine that I have the hardest time getting up in front of people and tell them

[00:34:09] how great it is.

[00:34:09] Yeah.

[00:34:10] Well, I noticed there's also in your tasting room, uh, distilling.

[00:34:13] Yeah.

[00:34:14] We have, uh, Hill Country Spirits.

[00:34:16] Um, that project has been, has been interesting.

[00:34:19] Um, so it's the old Hill Country Distillery in Comfort, Texas.

[00:34:24] Okay.

[00:34:24] Um, we had an opportunity with some friends out of Fort Worth, um, to partner on that.

[00:34:30] Uh, Steve and Melissa Cohn and, uh, bring that, uh, up to, up to the, what we call the

[00:34:38] production.

[00:34:38] It's Ravenberg production is what we call this up here.

[00:34:40] It's Sascad.

[00:34:41] We call it the production house.

[00:34:42] Cause we don't, we don't really know what the hell to call it.

[00:34:44] Right.

[00:34:45] It's got a bunch of different names, man.

[00:34:47] Um, and yeah, I wish.

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:50] Yeah.

[00:34:51] It's Chateau something, but yeah.

[00:34:52] Yeah.

[00:34:53] Yeah.

[00:34:54] Yeah.

[00:34:54] I wouldn't want to disparage Texas like that, but, um, but we, you know, uh, we brought the

[00:35:01] distillery up here.

[00:35:02] We've got the still set up.

[00:35:03] We're starting to make some product.

[00:35:05] Um, we, uh, we rebranded all of it.

[00:35:08] Um, I, I'm a big, uh, I am a, I'm a big proponent of branding.

[00:35:13] I think it's important.

[00:35:14] Um, and you know, moonshine is great, but it has a connotation to it.

[00:35:19] Right.

[00:35:20] And that product to be quite frank, like those, those guys, the, the Kovacs family and James

[00:35:25] Stout and, and, and Steve, when they first started that thing, they're making, they were

[00:35:30] making a world-class product that nobody knew about.

[00:35:33] Right.

[00:35:33] And it's like, it's like the guy who invented the hula hoop.

[00:35:37] Right.

[00:35:37] Um, nobody, nobody knew what his name was, but when he sold it to Hasbro in 1903, everybody

[00:35:43] figured out what the hula hoop was.

[00:35:44] Right.

[00:35:45] Um, and, and that's that kind of thing.

[00:35:47] That's how we're, we're looking at that.

[00:35:48] So we've got, you can come up to, uh, Rivenberg production and you can taste, uh, Rivenberg

[00:35:54] one we've got, and we'll never have more than like four wines on the menu.

[00:35:58] It's made to be very distinct, very small offering, very select quality wines.

[00:36:04] Um, then you can taste, uh, Hill Country spirits.

[00:36:07] So all the fun things that we're making around cactus.

[00:36:09] So it's like a mezcal that's not smoky.

[00:36:12] Okay.

[00:36:12] If you will.

[00:36:12] Agave?

[00:36:13] No, uh, we're actually, we're actually fermenting the cactus pad itself and the Napala.

[00:36:19] So it's a, it's a Napala wine.

[00:36:20] Um, I don't want to go too far into how we're doing that because there's actually a lot of

[00:36:24] people recently, like in the last few months, there's been a lot of people trying to do

[00:36:29] trying to decode, uh, what we're doing because it's a, it's really good.

[00:36:33] I mean, this stuff's really, really good that, like I said, the Kovacs, they built something

[00:36:36] really, really special.

[00:36:38] Um, and then you can taste Nobleman wines with Austin Pitzer.

[00:36:41] I'm, I'm the winemaker record for Nobleman.

[00:36:44] So we make, we make all those wines also, um, here at our place.

[00:36:48] And then he's got a little, got his little tasting room out here.

[00:36:50] Yeah.

[00:36:51] Uh, and, uh, yeah.

[00:36:52] So you can, you can come up here and taste, you know, two different wineries.

[00:36:56] Multiple wines.

[00:36:57] Yeah.

[00:36:57] And I mean, with like Nobleman, his style, he has a style, which allows me as an art,

[00:37:02] look, I consider myself an artist.

[00:37:04] So his style allows me as an artist to work in kind of a different genre.

[00:37:09] So it's still very much a Rivenberg wine.

[00:37:10] Right.

[00:37:11] But it's in a style that like, I enjoy doing.

[00:37:14] Right.

[00:37:15] So it's like, uh, it's like somebody who works in a steakhouse gets to all of a sudden

[00:37:18] cook Szechuan, you know, or traditional Cantonese food.

[00:37:22] It's like, Oh, I'm still doing the same thing I do, but I'm doing this different style.

[00:37:26] You know?

[00:37:26] And so it's fun.

[00:37:27] We, we get to, I get to play and get spread my wings a little bit artistically with those

[00:37:31] wines.

[00:37:31] Nice.

[00:37:32] Yeah.

[00:37:33] Tell me just a little bit about the Texas Wine Growers Association or what is that all about?

[00:37:38] So Texas Wine Growers, uh, it is the Texas Wine Growers Association.

[00:37:41] Um, it, it is just Texas Wine Growers.

[00:37:44] It is an association of wineries and grape growers, um, that are all dedicated to, uh, promoting

[00:37:50] and protecting, uh, the beautiful nuance that is Texas Wine.

[00:37:54] Okay.

[00:37:54] And all things Texas Wine.

[00:37:56] Um, our goal is to be, uh, an educated advocate for all things, a hundred percent Texas.

[00:38:03] Um, to be in the organization, you must grow and or produce a hundred percent Texas Wine.

[00:38:09] Um, we're the only organization that quite literally has to show everybody, each other's, uh, you

[00:38:15] know, TABC reportings and TTB reportings, and then sign a pledge to the fact that we will

[00:38:20] continue to make a hundred percent Texas wines while we're members of the organization.

[00:38:23] So that's, that's near and dear to our heart.

[00:38:26] Um, you know, it is, it is a, a group of folks that is really dedicated to, um, developing Texas

[00:38:37] as a wine region of standout, right?

[00:38:40] Um, we've been actively pursuing and pushing ABAs.

[00:38:45] We've been kind of the front runner in doing that, working with Justice Schreiner, um, to,

[00:38:50] to develop, uh, a more ABAs in the state, which has helped create a template.

[00:38:55] This is the cool part.

[00:38:56] Like we, we did that and it's helped create a template so other regions can utilize that

[00:38:59] template with Justin, uh, to get more ABAs in the state, which is a goal, not for us

[00:39:05] to do it, but we helped break through that, uh, and put the efforts in to help build that

[00:39:10] so that other regions in the state can utilize that same model to, to do more ABA work, which

[00:39:16] is super important for, for Texas, right?

[00:39:18] Um, creating that, creating that regional, uh, identity, uh, is also a big deal for us.

[00:39:26] Um, Texas is a huge state and we love Texas and we all make wines from all over Texas, but

[00:39:32] we also identify and understand that there's multiple different regions that are doing

[00:39:36] multiply and exclusively different things in those regions that are all equally as good,

[00:39:42] right?

[00:39:42] It'd be like, you wouldn't go tell a champagne grower, uh, that he's less than because he's

[00:39:48] not making wine in Bordeaux, right?

[00:39:50] Yeah.

[00:39:51] Um, they're two totally different things.

[00:39:52] Exactly.

[00:39:52] Right.

[00:39:53] And I think at some point we need to start to look at the state and highlight, and this

[00:39:57] is me as the president of Texas Wine Door, sorry.

[00:39:59] I think we need to start to look at and highlight the beautiful things coming from each one of

[00:40:04] those regions.

[00:40:05] And instead of trying to beat each other up over them, let's work, work together to highlight

[00:40:09] those regions and really bolster those things.

[00:40:12] Right.

[00:40:12] But, you know, I, I personally think that Southeast Texas could be an amazing sparkling region with

[00:40:17] all the Blanc du Bois.

[00:40:17] I think we make amazing sparkling with Blanc du Bois.

[00:40:20] Um, I think the high plains can be, um, known and I'm so glad that there's more people making

[00:40:26] wine up there now, um, that they can be known for certain varietals.

[00:40:31] I'll keep those to myself, which ones they shouldn't be doing.

[00:40:33] That's my opinion.

[00:40:34] And then the whole country, I think we have a whole different ability to have different

[00:40:38] stuff.

[00:40:39] And North, in Texoma, North Central Texas, um, there's great for me.

[00:40:44] My gosh, Howard Davis is growing amazing Chardonnay this place for.

[00:40:47] Decades.

[00:40:48] Right.

[00:40:49] And so we need to start highlighting and promoting those things.

[00:40:52] And that's what Texas wine growers is working to do.

[00:40:54] We want to highlight and, and, and exemplify all of the, all of the great experiences around

[00:41:00] the state and all of the great things that all these different regions are doing.

[00:41:04] And we're going to shout it from the rooftops.

[00:41:06] We're going to work diligently, uh, from a, um, from a standpoint of always protecting Texas

[00:41:13] and Texas producers, uh, specifically, um, you will find not a bigger band of people that

[00:41:21] care about production versus non-production.

[00:41:23] Uh, I'm a firm believer in the fact that we need to be highlighting people who are producing

[00:41:28] and allowing people who just function as a winery be that.

[00:41:34] Right.

[00:41:34] Um, so, uh, yeah, we've got a great program, the Texas wine advocate, uh, program.

[00:41:40] You can join up for $50 annually.

[00:41:43] You can be an advocate member of Texas wine growers.

[00:41:45] And, you know, we're starting to work through what that Benny package looks like.

[00:41:50] Right.

[00:41:50] But right now as an advocate member, you get really cool insight.

[00:41:54] You know, you'll be access to the newsletter that nobody else gets.

[00:41:57] Um, you'll have access to events like this weekend's event in Marble Falls.

[00:42:02] If you're an advocate member, you get in from 11 to 12, uh, as a VIP participant.

[00:42:07] And we're all pouring special wines just for that.

[00:42:10] So you get to go to events early.

[00:42:12] You get to get in early.

[00:42:13] You get to meet the operators, um, and, you know, taste some wines that nobody else is going

[00:42:19] to get to taste.

[00:42:20] So it's a, it's a pretty cool VIP membership.

[00:42:22] Um, it's an insider's guide to Texas, if you will.

[00:42:25] So.

[00:42:26] And Texas Undervined is a member.

[00:42:28] It is.

[00:42:28] I know that.

[00:42:29] Thank you very much.

[00:42:30] Yeah.

[00:42:30] Thank you very much.

[00:42:31] I appreciate that.

[00:42:32] Yeah.

[00:42:32] Um, and so it's just, it's a, it's a great organization, um, that it's been, it's done,

[00:42:38] it's doing some selfless work to be honest.

[00:42:40] Um, you know, there's a group of us on the board that, um, you know, are working diligently

[00:42:47] to do these things.

[00:42:48] And, you know, there's days where, you know, I was in Austin yesterday, you know, I had

[00:42:53] to get my butt up super early and drive to Austin and go on KXAN to talk about Texas

[00:42:57] wine growers.

[00:42:58] And, you know, whereas in the past you couldn't get somebody to, I went and I poured, uh, a

[00:43:05] William Chris Rosé, uh, an Abbastris red blend and, you know, one of my wines.

[00:43:10] Um, and it's so much fun for me to get and talk about these other producers that are doing

[00:43:15] cool things.

[00:43:16] And I think that's how this organization looks at it, right?

[00:43:19] We all realize that there, we're all, we're all pushing the same rock up the hill and we

[00:43:24] want to bring others with us.

[00:43:25] What's the phrase about the rising tide lifts all boats?

[00:43:28] Rising tide lifts all boats for sure.

[00:43:29] I mean, that's, that's, that's a, that's a real thing.

[00:43:31] And I mean, we've got some challenges in our state that we've got to navigate and we'll

[00:43:35] do it.

[00:43:36] We'll get through them.

[00:43:37] Every toddler has got to learn how to walk, right?

[00:43:39] Every kid's got to learn how to run.

[00:43:40] So we'll be there.

[00:43:41] Well, thank you for all that you're doing for Texas wine.

[00:43:43] Thanks man.

[00:43:44] Thanks.

[00:43:45] I, it's been a, it's been a long, uh, a long, long journey in all of these organizations.

[00:43:51] Fun fact.

[00:43:52] Can I give you a fun fact?

[00:43:52] I love fun facts.

[00:43:54] So fun fact, um, I have been a board member of Twigga.

[00:43:59] I've been a two-time president of Texas Hill Country Wineries.

[00:44:02] Okay.

[00:44:03] I'm now the president of Texas Wine Growers.

[00:44:05] Uh, I have been on, uh, Sid Miller's TDA Wine Advisory, uh, Council.

[00:44:12] Agricultural Commissioner.

[00:44:13] Yeah.

[00:44:13] Yep.

[00:44:13] I was on that for eight years.

[00:44:15] Uh, I, um, yeah, I'm a glutton for the punishment, man.

[00:44:20] You like having as many plate tissue you get spending a hard time.

[00:44:23] I, I do.

[00:44:24] I do.

[00:44:24] But I feel like, and to my point, um, you gotta be present to win.

[00:44:30] Yeah.

[00:44:30] Right.

[00:44:31] And also that being said, um, I would encourage anybody else out there that's making wine.

[00:44:37] I'm going to, this, I'm going to talk to the other producers out there right now.

[00:44:40] So anybody out there that's making wine and who wants to be involved and who wants and who

[00:44:44] cares about what they're doing, get involved.

[00:44:47] Yeah.

[00:44:47] Be involved.

[00:44:48] Don't just sit back and complain about what other people are doing.

[00:44:51] Get out there and get involved.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:52] You know?

[00:44:53] And, uh, I never thought I'd be the guy to say that because I used to roll my eyes at,

[00:44:57] at Kord Switzer years ago and he'd say, get involved.

[00:44:59] Do you need to do it?

[00:45:00] But, but now here I am.

[00:45:01] Right.

[00:45:01] And so I think it's important.

[00:45:03] I think we're at a very important stage in the development of Texas wine that all producers,

[00:45:08] uh, and growers need to be out, um, telling a story.

[00:45:12] Yeah.

[00:45:13] So thank you to you, man, for doing this.

[00:45:15] Well, tell me a little bit about your fruit.

[00:45:17] So where do you typically source your fruit?

[00:45:20] Um, so, I mean, our main operation for Rivenberg wine, uh, the main place we source fruit is

[00:45:25] Rustic Spur.

[00:45:26] And the, the, the, Jim and Renee and, and, and share it, or she's now Shishler.

[00:45:31] Um, we, I have, I love the fruit out of there.

[00:45:34] I mean, I helped start that vineyard years ago and, um, you know, we've worked with them

[00:45:38] since the day it started.

[00:45:40] And, uh, uh, you know, to not just out, uh, and Simeon, I wish I could take the credit

[00:45:45] for the Simeon, but it was Bill Blackman that had to allow the book to plant Simeon.

[00:45:50] But, and he was right.

[00:45:51] Cause that stuff is, makes a beautiful, beautiful.

[00:45:53] I helped harvest their Simeon, not this year, but last year.

[00:45:55] Okay.

[00:45:56] Well, yeah.

[00:45:57] Um, and so, yeah, they always joke as a winemaker, I usually show up just to pick up fruit.

[00:46:02] I always give me a hard time.

[00:46:03] They're like, well, where were you during picking?

[00:46:04] And I'm like, well, not so much to them, but it's like, well, where are you at 10 o'clock

[00:46:08] at night when we're doing punch now?

[00:46:10] Exactly.

[00:46:10] Yeah.

[00:46:11] Oh, they'll be here.

[00:46:12] See.

[00:46:12] Um, so they're, uh, they're Pepper Jack Vineyard.

[00:46:17] I've been making wines out of Pepper Jack.

[00:46:19] Uh, I love, love the fruit out of Pepper Jack.

[00:46:22] We make some Trebbiano.

[00:46:23] Um, we're making some Tiroldigo.

[00:46:27] Um, I, I made my first Tiroldigo in, uh, was the first one I made for the, for the Nara

[00:46:34] family out of their vineyard, um, was 2016.

[00:46:38] Um, and that was, you say, I fell in love with it.

[00:46:41] I can't take credit for Tiroldigo.

[00:46:42] That's all Nikki, uh, Davis.

[00:46:45] Um, but man, she really knocked it out of the park with finding that bridal because

[00:46:50] it is, that's a winner for the high plane.

[00:46:52] So, uh, Pepper Jack and the mills, uh, are kind of our big, big operations.

[00:46:58] We make some lay hay fruit.

[00:46:59] Um, I love the guys at Cannon County.

[00:47:01] They're making some really nice, they're growing some nice fruit in La Mesa.

[00:47:04] Um, so we make some stuff out of there, but our primary, primary productions are, are

[00:47:09] out of, uh, Pepper Jack and, uh, mills family.

[00:47:12] Okay.

[00:47:13] Um, down here.

[00:47:13] So, yeah.

[00:47:14] Um, but we, you know, the whole place, we probably make wines from 41 different vineyards.

[00:47:21] Wow.

[00:47:22] With all the different incubator.

[00:47:23] Yeah.

[00:47:23] They bring a project.

[00:47:24] Do we?

[00:47:24] Yeah.

[00:47:25] We, we work with a lot of vineyards.

[00:47:27] All over the state.

[00:47:28] All over the state.

[00:47:28] Yeah.

[00:47:29] Country in high plane.

[00:47:30] Oh, and East Texas.

[00:47:31] East Texas.

[00:47:31] Yeah.

[00:47:32] Yeah.

[00:47:32] So we make, you know, we made some sparkling out of some Blanc.

[00:47:35] Yeah.

[00:47:35] So we, uh, last year was a killer, man.

[00:47:38] We, uh, we started July 4th weekend and we went all the way through Halloween.

[00:47:42] Yeah.

[00:47:42] Like pretty consistent winemaking through the whole, through the whole year.

[00:47:46] So we kind of worked our way across the state, if you will.

[00:47:49] Yeah.

[00:47:49] Um, but, uh, yeah.

[00:47:51] Yeah.

[00:47:52] Cool.

[00:47:52] What are your favorite wines to make as a winemaker?

[00:47:56] Oh man.

[00:47:57] Uh, that's a good question, man.

[00:48:01] In all the years I've been doing this, nobody's ever asked me that question.

[00:48:05] At least not that I remember.

[00:48:06] I'm proud to be the first.

[00:48:07] You said, at least not that I remember.

[00:48:08] Um, what are my favorite wines to make, man?

[00:48:10] Wow.

[00:48:11] Uh, you know, I love, I put on the spot.

[00:48:17] I love making my big brooding reds.

[00:48:20] Yeah.

[00:48:21] I, I think that I, I, you know what?

[00:48:24] I'm going to get a little like, I, you know, there's a, there's a fine line and I'm learning

[00:48:30] this as I've gotten to be an older man.

[00:48:32] I'm going to be 50 this year, which I know isn't old, but it's old enough.

[00:48:35] Yeah.

[00:48:36] We were right in front of me.

[00:48:36] And yeah.

[00:48:37] Yeah.

[00:48:38] But I, you know, there's a fine line between, um, you know, confidence and overcompensation.

[00:48:47] Right.

[00:48:48] And, and I've done a lot of stuff and I've had some really great mentors that are like,

[00:48:53] you know, don't apologize for the hard work that you've put into the things that you do.

[00:48:57] Right.

[00:48:59] Um, you know, that started years ago when I played sports and it was like, don't apologize

[00:49:04] for getting an all city bid or don't, don't apologize for that.

[00:49:06] You, you put the work in.

[00:49:08] You earned it.

[00:49:08] You earned it.

[00:49:09] Right.

[00:49:09] And, and so I'm, I'm, I've struggled with the whole thing around, like I've earned it.

[00:49:14] Uh, I know I've earned it, but I still struggle with, you know, the people that are like, oh

[00:49:18] man, all he wants to do is talk about how great he is.

[00:49:20] And that's not really the case.

[00:49:21] Right.

[00:49:22] It's, it's just like, I've done a lot of shit.

[00:49:23] Yeah.

[00:49:24] You know?

[00:49:24] And when you train a lot of people and they win a lot of awards and that stuff trickles

[00:49:29] back to somewhere to somebody.

[00:49:30] And so anyway, I, I think that my favorite thing to make is my big brooding reds.

[00:49:35] I think that I've come up with a style that has created and led to a lot of amazing wines

[00:49:42] in the state.

[00:49:43] And I'm very proud of that.

[00:49:44] Um, you know, a lot of these folks that are winning awards are coming from stylistically,

[00:49:49] you know, how we make big brooding reds.

[00:49:51] And I think that, um, when people come here, a lot of times the first thing they go is like,

[00:49:56] that's it.

[00:49:58] That's all.

[00:49:58] That's it.

[00:49:59] Like, yeah, it's, it really is.

[00:50:01] That's it.

[00:50:01] Like we don't monkey with it.

[00:50:03] We don't over manipulate.

[00:50:04] This is what you do.

[00:50:05] And if you just leave it alone, this is how it turns out.

[00:50:08] Huh?

[00:50:08] Wow.

[00:50:09] That's it.

[00:50:09] Okay.

[00:50:10] I mean, that is, that's it.

[00:50:11] There's still a lot of work goes into it, but I would say my favorite wines to make are,

[00:50:16] you know, big, big brooding reds and not one varietal or another because, you know,

[00:50:21] like I've really enjoyed the last few years getting to make some just amazing Trolldigos,

[00:50:25] you know, and learning, learning the nuances around that varietal has been really fun.

[00:50:30] Um, tonight will always be my, will always be my baby.

[00:50:34] Um, I always, you know, love making Tanaks.

[00:50:36] It's, it's, it's become kind of, you know, secondhand in a lot of ways, you know?

[00:50:43] Um, I love that I can, you know, it's, it's probably the only varietal truly that I can pick

[00:50:48] out anywhere, you know?

[00:50:50] Yeah.

[00:50:50] Um, so I love that, but I love making big brooding reds and to be honest, and people

[00:50:55] aren't going to love hearing this, they're easier than everything else to make.

[00:50:58] Yeah.

[00:50:59] They really are.

[00:51:00] Yeah.

[00:51:00] I mean, you start with good quality fruit.

[00:51:02] Yep.

[00:51:03] Um, you, there are some techniques around fermentation for extraction that you do.

[00:51:09] Um, there's some yeast selections that are pretty, you know, that I like to kind of stick

[00:51:14] to and I don't very much from.

[00:51:16] Okay.

[00:51:16] A little bit here or there.

[00:51:17] Um, and you know, then you just, you just ferment it and then you just leave it alone.

[00:51:24] You press it and you leave it alone, right?

[00:51:26] Like you rack it a couple of times, you get it in a barrel and you leave it alone.

[00:51:28] Right.

[00:51:29] And so, um, you know, as far as wines being made, they're generally the easiest wines

[00:51:35] to make.

[00:51:36] Yeah.

[00:51:37] Do you typically like to do those in new oak or a neutral oak or a combination?

[00:51:41] I'm a neutral oak guy.

[00:51:42] Okay.

[00:51:42] Um, I, uh, I will use staves.

[00:51:45] Um, I'm a big proponent of staves.

[00:51:47] Um, I stumbled across, uh, staves in Monterey, California in a conversation with a gentleman

[00:51:56] who is very high up in the Kendall Jackson organization, Fritz Mir, uh, super cool.

[00:52:02] He was actually one of the first winemakers at, um, Bell Mountain.

[00:52:07] His first wine, his first winemaking job was like in 1978 at Bell Mountain.

[00:52:11] Um, and he's now, I think like the director of eonology for all Jackson family wines.

[00:52:16] Whoa.

[00:52:16] Yeah.

[00:52:16] No, he's, yeah.

[00:52:17] That's pretty big.

[00:52:18] Yeah.

[00:52:18] No, he's, yeah.

[00:52:19] I, I, I, we don't keep in contact anymore, but I met him and we were talking and I was,

[00:52:24] I was kind of, I was complaining about how much money we were going to have to spend on

[00:52:28] new oak.

[00:52:28] And he goes, he goes, have you ever heard of like, have you ever heard of staves?

[00:52:32] And I was like, no, this was 2010, 2011.

[00:52:36] You know, I was like, no, what's a stave, you know, like a stave, like that makes a barrel.

[00:52:40] He's like, no, no, no.

[00:52:40] You put them inside a neutral barrel.

[00:52:42] I was like, huh?

[00:52:43] Wow.

[00:52:44] So I came back to Texas and I started doing some research and, and, uh, man, sure enough,

[00:52:49] we could save ourselves like 80 grand just by going to staves.

[00:52:53] And so being an operational and a process guy, right.

[00:52:56] And a business guy, I was like, huh, we can still get pretty much the same effect without

[00:53:00] spending the same amount of money.

[00:53:02] And so we've, we've navigated staves for a very long time.

[00:53:05] Now I use some new oak here and there.

[00:53:07] Um, most of the new oak that I've used is more on my white wine programs.

[00:53:11] Um, but as far as reds go, I love to highlight fruit and I love to highlight the, I love to

[00:53:21] highlight the, the expressions of, you know, mid palette and, um, just, just the nuance of

[00:53:27] our tour.

[00:53:28] I think way too many winemakers use oak as a, as a crutch.

[00:53:31] And not because they're, they need a crutch or to hide things.

[00:53:35] It's just because they still follow that old antiquated, like they're not dialing in their

[00:53:39] own style.

[00:53:40] It's just, well, I was told I got to put 40% color by numbers.

[00:53:44] Yeah.

[00:53:44] Color by numbers.

[00:53:45] Thank you.

[00:53:45] That's a great way to put it.

[00:53:46] And, uh, and so I don't, I like neutral oak.

[00:53:49] I like mostly neutral oak.

[00:53:50] I would say, uh, 90% of my wines are less than 10% oak influenced.

[00:53:58] Okay.

[00:53:59] They're through staves or new oak.

[00:54:00] Mm-hmm.

[00:54:01] Yeah.

[00:54:02] Yeah.

[00:54:02] Slick time work.

[00:54:04] Okay.

[00:54:05] So, uh, what are some of those favorite wines that with your customers were the ones that

[00:54:08] just seem like they're always flying off the shelves and people are glamor-y for all

[00:54:11] the time?

[00:54:12] Um, I mean, our, like we made a Sagrantino.

[00:54:15] We couldn't get, that was, we blew through that.

[00:54:17] Like we couldn't even, like, it was unbelievable.

[00:54:19] Um, the Turaldigo, you know, it is hands down been one of our fastest sellers.

[00:54:25] Um, which, which kills me because, you know, it's like, don't let the Tanat see the Turaldigo

[00:54:30] getting off the shell.

[00:54:31] You know, it's like, you know, I call it like the Tor story.

[00:54:34] Don't let the wines fight.

[00:54:35] Don't let the, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:54:36] Um, uh, but you know, we rotate things so much where there's not, we don't really have

[00:54:43] one or another.

[00:54:44] Yeah.

[00:54:44] One of the biggest compliments I've gotten my whole career is, man, we really like all

[00:54:49] of your wines.

[00:54:50] And I don't know if I just like present them well, or if I stumbled onto some magic secret,

[00:54:55] but that's been, that, that is one of two compliments.

[00:54:59] Like people come in and they're like, man, these are great.

[00:55:02] We love all your wines.

[00:55:03] And the other is, um, uh, the other is like, we don't usually drink white wines, uh, but

[00:55:09] we love your white wines.

[00:55:10] There's a lot of structure and body to that.

[00:55:11] Like, yeah, well, thanks.

[00:55:12] It's just winemaking.

[00:55:13] You just, we try not to strip all the stuff that tastes good out, you know, and making

[00:55:17] it look pretty, you know?

[00:55:18] Um, so yeah.

[00:55:20] Yeah.

[00:55:20] Uh, but I, I don't really think there's one more than another that, that flies off the

[00:55:25] shelf.

[00:55:26] Okay.

[00:55:26] There's really not.

[00:55:27] I mean, well, some sweet wine.

[00:55:30] We started making, I made my first sweet wines last year.

[00:55:33] Um, and because we were, I'm a, I personally believe you should give people what they want

[00:55:39] and people are coming in.

[00:55:41] There's like a reassurgence of sweet, sweet drinkers and that's okay.

[00:55:44] Sure.

[00:55:45] Everybody has their palate.

[00:55:45] Everybody has their palate.

[00:55:46] And so, you know, for many years I was like, we're not going to, I'm going to beat my chest

[00:55:51] and I'm going to never start.

[00:55:52] It's not Texas.

[00:55:53] No, it was Texas.

[00:55:55] Yeah.

[00:55:55] Yeah.

[00:55:55] That's just not wine.

[00:55:57] And you know, that, that moron left the, the, that, that guy left this place a long,

[00:56:02] long time ago.

[00:56:02] And now it's like, yeah, no people, people want sweet wines.

[00:56:06] And so, you know, we're going to, in doing that, we went out and like, you know, I, I

[00:56:12] called, uh, Maureen Qualia.

[00:56:15] Uh, and I was like, Maureen, I've never really made sweet wines.

[00:56:19] Tell, you know, tell me about how to make sweet wines.

[00:56:22] Right.

[00:56:22] And she very nicely like gave us some, you know, gave us some insights, gave us some background.

[00:56:26] Um, you know, and I've been making wine a long time, right.

[00:56:29] Even read it in a book, but until you talk to somebody who's actually done it, it's hard.

[00:56:33] Um, Meredith, uh, Reed, who's our, our, our, uh, head of winemaking production and GM, she's

[00:56:39] made a lot of sweet wines.

[00:56:40] And so that's really, I mean, she's kind of taken the lead on those things.

[00:56:44] And, and we're, our goal is to make not just sweet wines, but a quality sweet wine because

[00:56:51] sweet wines have been made on this planet for a very long time.

[00:56:54] You think about Sauternes, right?

[00:56:55] You have all these things that you think about all these wines that are just super decadent.

[00:56:59] Um, and so we said, if we're going to make a sweet wine, we're going to, we're going to

[00:57:03] get fruit specifically for sweet wine and we're going to make them sweet on purpose.

[00:57:08] On purpose.

[00:57:09] Right.

[00:57:09] We're not going to go just take something and dump a bunch of sugar in it because it's

[00:57:13] going to fulfill a palate.

[00:57:14] We were, we were going to make something that goes special.

[00:57:16] And so Meredith really like kind of knocked it out of the park.

[00:57:19] Some of these things we've done, we've done a sweet rosé and we're, we've got, uh, we're

[00:57:24] going to do some, some traditional sweet French muscat stuff.

[00:57:27] Okay.

[00:57:28] Um, yeah, it's really kind of fun.

[00:57:29] Stopping fermentation early to leave residual sugar.

[00:57:32] Yep.

[00:57:32] Exactly.

[00:57:32] Yeah.

[00:57:33] Yep.

[00:57:34] Cool.

[00:57:34] Yeah.

[00:57:35] Well, Disney and Pixar, you can't have this idea, but I'm envisioning this Toy Story

[00:57:40] style movie, but it's the winery after the doors are closed at night and all the wine

[00:57:44] bottles have their, the different varietals have their different personalities.

[00:57:47] It's funny that you say that.

[00:57:49] Cause I, I always call it the Toy Story effect.

[00:57:51] Yeah.

[00:57:51] Like I always jokingly, like, that's funny that you say that.

[00:57:53] That's exactly what's always in my head when I tell that story.

[00:57:57] I'm envisioning different personalities with different varietals.

[00:57:59] Right.

[00:57:59] That's how they might speak out.

[00:58:01] So not probably a huge asshole.

[00:58:02] Oh yeah.

[00:58:03] Sorry.

[00:58:04] Yeah.

[00:58:05] That or the California cabs, you know?

[00:58:07] Yeah.

[00:58:07] They're just big egos.

[00:58:09] Yeah.

[00:58:09] They're, they're just big egos.

[00:58:10] Yeah.

[00:58:11] So now it's probably pushing them off the shelves on a regular basis.

[00:58:13] We could definitely come up with some fun stuff.

[00:58:15] That would be fun.

[00:58:15] Yeah.

[00:58:16] Well, do you do, do you host, you've got the tasting room here.

[00:58:19] Um, do you host like any types of events here or things like that?

[00:58:22] Or is it just the tasting?

[00:58:23] So, you know, the production house is, is by nature.

[00:58:28] Um, how can I say this?

[00:58:30] Like we, by nature, we're, we're kind of off the beaten path.

[00:58:34] Right.

[00:58:35] Um, and we decided to kind of lean into that.

[00:58:37] And it's like, you know, we're kind of the speakeasy of wines.

[00:58:40] Right.

[00:58:40] Um, but I'm not going to go on Instagram and be like, look at our, I'm not going to hire

[00:58:44] an influencer to open my door and show you how this is a speakeasy.

[00:58:48] Right.

[00:58:48] We're going to navigate it that way.

[00:58:49] Spin with their glass.

[00:58:50] Yeah.

[00:58:51] Yeah.

[00:58:51] I mean, there's a place for that, but, but it's not here.

[00:58:54] And, uh, and so yeah, we're like, we want people to come here because they're going

[00:59:00] to, we want them to search out the best wines that they can find.

[00:59:03] Right.

[00:59:03] Right.

[00:59:03] You'll see some, you'll see some blurbs from times.

[00:59:06] I call this the epicenter of Texas wines.

[00:59:09] You know, one could argue that it's true.

[00:59:12] I mean, stylistically, I've been involved with making a lot of style choices for Texas

[00:59:16] wines.

[00:59:17] Um, and so, yeah, I mean, we don't do a lot of events up here where we're just kind of

[00:59:23] getting our feet under us.

[00:59:25] We don't have a wine club for Rivenberg wine.

[00:59:27] We kind of consider everybody a clumber that comes in here.

[00:59:30] We try to treat everybody the same way.

[00:59:32] Um, it's a pretty relaxed atmosphere.

[00:59:34] You may wind up on the crush pad having your glass of wine because we just don't have enough

[00:59:38] people to stand in the tasting room at the time and we're working on something.

[00:59:41] So, um, we kind of like to look at ourselves as like the, yeah, the speakeasy of wineries,

[00:59:47] right?

[00:59:47] Yeah.

[00:59:47] I want people to search us out because they, we have, we gain and build a reputation around

[00:59:52] great wines.

[00:59:53] Not because we have, uh, a great lawn or the best yard games or, um, you know, those things.

[01:00:00] I want to be known and I want my team to be known for being the best winemaking team in

[01:00:04] the state.

[01:00:05] That's our goal.

[01:00:06] And I, I now would put our wines up consistently against anybody anywhere in the world.

[01:00:11] Okay.

[01:00:12] Yeah.

[01:00:12] Well, let's talk about that tasting experience then.

[01:00:15] So a listener is getting excited.

[01:00:16] They want to get out here to Kerrville and come check things out here.

[01:00:20] Um, so I want to talk about what does a typical tasting look like for the customer?

[01:00:24] So when they come in, uh, to do a tasting, is there, I know you said you have only a certain

[01:00:28] number of wines.

[01:00:29] You change those up frequently or what does that look like?

[01:00:32] We do.

[01:00:32] We're pretty, we're pretty, pretty seasonally driven by our wines.

[01:00:36] Um, right now, um, you know, we've even talked about the spring going into just a, a

[01:00:41] straight white and rosé.

[01:00:42] Uh, menu, um, just to do, do things fun.

[01:00:46] Right.

[01:00:46] And season, seasonally, we've talked about just going straight to all reds, uh, through,

[01:00:50] through the winter.

[01:00:51] Um, uh, you come in, it's still pretty traditional in the aspect of a tasting room.

[01:00:56] Right.

[01:00:57] But it's very laid back.

[01:00:59] Um, you walk in, you're, it's like, you're walking into the production house.

[01:01:03] Our tasting room is, you were just there.

[01:01:04] I mean, it's nice.

[01:01:05] Right.

[01:01:05] It's like, uh, what do one of my friends, I have a friend of mine who's a car guy.

[01:01:08] He's like, yeah, you, this is like, uh, the old hot rod that doesn't look super great

[01:01:13] on the outside, but the car's fast as hell.

[01:01:15] Yeah.

[01:01:15] You know?

[01:01:16] And so our tasting room is kind of like that.

[01:01:17] You walk inside and it's very, it's very inviting.

[01:01:20] It's very comfortable.

[01:01:20] You know, it's more like chairs and seating and we have the bar.

[01:01:24] Uh, you know, if you want to come in and sit at the bar and get nerdy with the people that

[01:01:28] are working in here, come on, you know, you're, you're going to endeavor into great conversation.

[01:01:33] It's relaxed.

[01:01:34] It's, uh, it's not studie as much as we, um, take seriously our winemaking.

[01:01:42] We, we never, we never take an elitist approach to cramming it down people's throat.

[01:01:47] Like, you know, when you come into my tasting room, um, you know, we, we only have one other

[01:01:54] person that works here part time.

[01:01:55] Right.

[01:01:55] So, um, but when I did have a lot of tasting room staff that I always tell people like,

[01:02:00] I want you to treat the people that come through the door, like they're sitting at your kitchen

[01:02:03] table, enjoying a glass of wine with you.

[01:02:05] And if you do that, you've done it well in my book.

[01:02:08] Right.

[01:02:08] And spurring conversation around people learning about wines or people that already know about

[01:02:13] a bunch about wines, um, is part of the fun.

[01:02:16] So you'll come here, you'll get to taste some great wines more likely than not.

[01:02:21] You know, if you're nice and you're interested and you're, you start to geek out, one of us

[01:02:25] might take you in the back and taste something cool.

[01:02:27] You know, um, you're getting a completely different experience than you get, you know, up, up on

[01:02:33] 290 or up in DFW or it's, you know, we still kind of keep that traditional interaction of,

[01:02:40] uh, wine exuberance and, uh, wine nerd, if you will.

[01:02:45] Yeah.

[01:02:45] Here at the tasting house.

[01:02:46] Yeah.

[01:02:47] And then for the tasting, uh, it's the, the flight that you have chosen there.

[01:02:51] How much does that typically cost?

[01:02:53] Four wines, uh, $20.

[01:02:55] Okay.

[01:02:56] Um, and you know, uh, it's pretty basic.

[01:03:00] Yeah.

[01:03:00] There's, there's not much to it.

[01:03:01] Uh, right now I think we have, uh, oh gosh, do we have, I actually think it's fives, two

[01:03:08] whites, a rosé.

[01:03:10] No, no, no.

[01:03:10] A white, a rosé and two reds.

[01:03:12] That's just a four.

[01:03:13] Yeah.

[01:03:13] Um, and like I said, we move it around.

[01:03:15] We can change it.

[01:03:16] We change it.

[01:03:16] Yeah.

[01:03:16] It gets changed really easily.

[01:03:18] So if you've been here before, you got to come back to try again and see the new menu.

[01:03:20] Oh yeah, absolutely.

[01:03:21] And I mean this, uh, after this harvest, we're going to be doing a bunch of bottling.

[01:03:25] So we'll have a completely different lineup, uh, in the fall, uh, later in the fall.

[01:03:30] Yeah.

[01:03:30] And going into the spring of next year.

[01:03:33] I'll say.

[01:03:33] Yeah.

[01:03:34] Do customers need to make a reservation to come in or is it walk in?

[01:03:37] No, walk on in.

[01:03:38] If you see the gate open, come on in.

[01:03:39] I mean, we're open Friday.

[01:03:40] We're technically open for tastings on Friday and Saturday from 11, from 11 to four.

[01:03:44] Okay.

[01:03:45] That was the next question.

[01:03:46] Yeah.

[01:03:46] Well, we're, I mean, cause we are, uh, we're, we're primarily a production house.

[01:03:51] Yes.

[01:03:52] Um, but if you wander in, you know, on a Thursday afternoon, uh, and the gates open, which it

[01:03:57] likely will be, uh, nobody's going to stop you from doing a tasting.

[01:04:01] You just, you just may have to do it in the back of the winery with us.

[01:04:04] Like that truly.

[01:04:04] While you're doing a punch down.

[01:04:06] Seriously.

[01:04:06] Be like, here, hold your, here, hold this glass.

[01:04:08] Or I got to do these punch downs while you're, you know, we can talk and, and do punch downs,

[01:04:12] which, you know, and a lot of my wine travels, that's been some of my most fascinating experiences

[01:04:17] is hanging out with other winemakers that, you know, like, oh man, come on back.

[01:04:21] I got to, I really got to catch up on this.

[01:04:23] Yeah.

[01:04:23] Come and shoot the shit with me while I'm, you know, you're running numbers or I'm, you

[01:04:26] know, whatever.

[01:04:27] Pouring out of a bottle with a couple of numbers on it.

[01:04:29] Yeah.

[01:04:30] Yeah.

[01:04:30] And I mean, that's, that, that is, that happens a lot here, to be honest.

[01:04:34] It really does.

[01:04:35] Um, and so yeah, you're going to get, it's just going to be a fun experience.

[01:04:38] So Friday, Friday, uh, Friday, Saturday, 11 to four.

[01:04:41] Um, that is also the hours of the distillery as well as Austin, uh, as a nobleman, um, same

[01:04:48] hours.

[01:04:48] Okay.

[01:04:48] Um, you know, if the world picks up and, uh, we see a need to open up more, we will.

[01:04:53] Okay.

[01:04:54] Yeah.

[01:04:55] What about, um, family friendly?

[01:04:57] If people have kids or pets or things like that?

[01:04:59] I got four, I have four kids.

[01:05:00] Yeah.

[01:05:00] Family friendly, uh, pet friendly.

[01:05:03] Okay.

[01:05:03] We just ask people to be responsible for both of them.

[01:05:06] You know, you don't have to keep your kid on leashes, but, uh, I'm joking.

[01:05:10] No, we are a hundred percent family friendly, a hundred percent kid friendly or, uh, pet friendly.

[01:05:14] Yeah.

[01:05:15] Um, just, you know, with pets, you know, we, we do encourage people to just be responsible.

[01:05:21] Don't, you know, like anything else.

[01:05:22] Like we also don't want your kids jumping off of our catwalks.

[01:05:25] Oh, sure.

[01:05:26] Yeah.

[01:05:26] But, uh, yeah, no, a hundred percent, please.

[01:05:28] We're also, you know, I'm a firm believer and, uh, you know, uh, bring a picnic.

[01:05:34] Okay.

[01:05:34] That was gonna, I was gonna ask food options.

[01:05:36] I know you're kind of small, so I don't know that you provide food, but can people bring

[01:05:39] their own food?

[01:05:40] We don't.

[01:05:40] I mean, we don't like, if we know folks are coming, we've got some great purveyors here

[01:05:44] in town that we, we like to, uh, we can, we can door dash some stuff in if you want now

[01:05:49] to, you know, in the modern world.

[01:05:50] Right.

[01:05:51] Um, so if we know you're coming, right.

[01:05:52] You let us know, we can door dash some stuff in for you if you want.

[01:05:55] We don't mind doing that.

[01:05:56] Um, and, uh, and though, if you want to come up and have a picnic, we've got a big lawn

[01:06:01] that is the highest point in Kirk County.

[01:06:02] You can look over the view outside and, uh, you're welcome to do that.

[01:06:06] We've got families that have come up here.

[01:06:08] Uh, man, where the weather starts to break.

[01:06:11] It's great.

[01:06:11] They put a big blanket outside, the parents grab some wines and the kids run around and

[01:06:16] run outside.

[01:06:16] Yeah.

[01:06:16] We're, we're all about that.

[01:06:18] Like I, you know, for us, you know, uh, the wine business is a, is an agricultural family

[01:06:22] business.

[01:06:23] Um, and it's gotta be navigated to where it is everywhere else in the world, everywhere else

[01:06:29] you go in the world.

[01:06:29] That's how you, I mean, it's families, right?

[01:06:32] I mean, this is a family business.

[01:06:33] It's, it's about family.

[01:06:35] So no, I'm not going to tell people they can't come cause they own a dog or they have kids.

[01:06:39] Right.

[01:06:40] Well, being smaller in size, um, do you have any maximum group sizes or things like that

[01:06:45] that you kind of want to make sure you can?

[01:06:47] Um, I, you know, anything that's a great question, by the way.

[01:06:50] Thank you.

[01:06:51] Um, anything over eight, we really, we really would like love to have a reservation.

[01:06:56] Okay.

[01:06:56] At least some out front notice.

[01:06:58] Yeah.

[01:06:59] Even if it's a day, like, Hey, we're in town, you know, we're going to come by on Saturday.

[01:07:03] Oh, thanks.

[01:07:03] Thursday afternoon.

[01:07:04] That's a great heads up.

[01:07:05] We're cool.

[01:07:06] And a lot of times with that, you know, we're going to hook up something cool.

[01:07:10] And like, you may get to sit in the back and the tank room and just because it's, you know,

[01:07:15] it's just more fun.

[01:07:16] Yeah.

[01:07:16] Right.

[01:07:16] Because we can't.

[01:07:17] Okay.

[01:07:17] Um, you know, um, no, we do lots of private parties.

[01:07:21] We have a lot of folks who've like, they, there's, it's funny.

[01:07:24] We've done a lot of corporate stuff, uh, because we are up here and we can shut the gate and

[01:07:29] we've got people who are like, Hey, we want to bring out your place for a few hours.

[01:07:32] We've done some strategic planning stuff for the city of Kerrville that where they come

[01:07:35] and bring their entire, um, you know, management and operating staff and we shut the gate and

[01:07:41] we, we go back and do our work and they hang out.

[01:07:44] Yeah.

[01:07:44] The property is yours.

[01:07:44] They hang out and do their thing.

[01:07:45] And so we have the ability to do that, uh, also.

[01:07:49] And now, you know, now with the spirit side, we really can, I mean, as far as like catering

[01:07:53] parties and things like that, we can really meet, we can meet a, you know, a couple of

[01:07:57] different aspects of your, of your, your, uh, entertainment.

[01:08:00] So yeah.

[01:08:01] Yeah.

[01:08:01] So we can come and just, and they can drink wine, but if you've got people that maybe don't

[01:08:05] like wine, but they like spirits.

[01:08:06] Yeah.

[01:08:06] We've got multiple options to take advantage of.

[01:08:09] Absolutely.

[01:08:09] And we've got, we've got DJ's a great, he's a great bartender.

[01:08:13] Uh, he just started with us.

[01:08:14] He is a character and a half.

[01:08:17] Um, I met him on a wine tour that I did at, as a, uh, I wouldn't say charity, but it was,

[01:08:27] uh, it was a day with John Rivenberg where we curated a wine tour to different wineries.

[01:08:31] Okay.

[01:08:32] And, uh, I do a radio show, uh, on Friday afternoons and, uh, from four to six, uh, it's,

[01:08:39] it's the buck 99.1.

[01:08:41] It's a highway drive.

[01:08:43] It's a kind of a, uh, traditional country music.

[01:08:46] And then, but on, but on Fridays from four to six, we talk about wine.

[01:08:49] It's really fun.

[01:08:50] Toby Appleton, my buddy.

[01:08:51] Is that local here to Kirkville area?

[01:08:53] But, well, it's, uh, I think they're, I want to say they broadcast over like four counties.

[01:08:59] So it's Kirkville, Fredericksburg, comfort, uh, doesn't quite go to Johnson city, but Stonewall,

[01:09:04] they can get it out there.

[01:09:06] Um, yeah.

[01:09:07] So it's a lot of fun.

[01:09:07] So anyway, DJ was on the, he was one of the, he and his wife were one of the winning

[01:09:11] couples.

[01:09:12] And, uh, man, the guy's just awesome.

[01:09:13] I kind of fell in love with him.

[01:09:14] He's a character.

[01:09:15] And so, uh, he called me and he's like, Hey, I'm looking for a part-time job.

[01:09:19] Can I be a bartender?

[01:09:20] Yeah, shoot.

[01:09:21] Let's do it, man.

[01:09:22] So we've got a way now like to make some cocktails.

[01:09:25] So it's kind of fun.

[01:09:26] Um, I keep joking, jokingly telling me, you've got to grow a handlebar mustache if you're going

[01:09:29] to be a, you know, a misologist.

[01:09:31] And he's like, no, I don't think so, man.

[01:09:33] The full hipster.

[01:09:33] You got to do, you got to go full hipster.

[01:09:35] Yeah.

[01:09:36] Um, but, uh, yeah.

[01:09:38] So we have the ability to do a lot of cool things.

[01:09:40] Well, what are some of your busier and slower seasons?

[01:09:43] What's the best time for people to come out and visit?

[01:09:45] I mean, what I normally October in Texas is, is beautiful, right?

[01:09:51] Right now it's been hotter than Hades, which has been strange.

[01:09:53] We had that, that weird early fall.

[01:09:56] Yeah.

[01:09:56] So I would say, uh, October, November, December, those are our busiest times.

[01:10:01] I think that's some of the best time in the hill country.

[01:10:04] Um, the hill country mentality goes very laissez-faire when you get past, uh, Halloween.

[01:10:10] A lot of people that move here from other places don't realize like, uh, and it's been

[01:10:16] fun for me because I, in some of my developmental work, people were like, well, I just don't

[01:10:19] understand why we can't get anything done.

[01:10:21] I'm like, well, these guys don't do shit, man.

[01:10:22] Deer season started, football season started.

[01:10:26] You know, everybody's rolling into the holiday.

[01:10:29] It's relaxation time.

[01:10:30] Like, you know, it's after Halloween, things get real slow.

[01:10:34] You know, those eight hour day or those 10 hour, 12 hour days go to eight to five, you

[01:10:38] know, to six.

[01:10:39] And you, thank goodness you were, heaven forbid you get to Thanksgiving because then nobody's

[01:10:43] doing anything.

[01:10:44] Yeah.

[01:10:44] And so it's a great time to be in the hill country.

[01:10:46] People are out.

[01:10:47] There's a lot of activities.

[01:10:48] There's lots of festivals.

[01:10:50] So yeah, that's, it's my favorite time to be.

[01:10:52] I wonder how much of that is due to this being, you know, more rural in an agricultural

[01:10:58] area.

[01:10:58] I mean, that's the, those are the months post harvest for a lot of agricultural stuff.

[01:11:03] And so, yeah, that's the time when now, okay, we worked hard all summer.

[01:11:07] We got a harvest done.

[01:11:08] Now it's time to kick back, take our hat off.

[01:11:10] And yeah, I think it's just, I think it's, I think it's ingrained in the, I mean, agriculturally

[01:11:14] we don't, I mean, we're, I guess we're still pretty strong ranching wise around here.

[01:11:20] Um, yeah, that makes sense.

[01:11:21] I mean, you know, an agricultural, an agricultural, uh, schedule makes sense for sure.

[01:11:27] I know agriculture is year round nowadays too, but, uh, I don't know.

[01:11:30] It was just a, just a postulation.

[01:11:32] I wonder if that's culturally kind of what the thought.

[01:11:34] I think it probably, I think it was probably so ingrained in this area over the last 150

[01:11:38] years at all that now it's just, you know, you get, you know, it's not, that's kind

[01:11:43] of why we like living here too.

[01:11:44] It's a cycle of life here.

[01:11:45] Things slow down around the holidays.

[01:11:47] Like, I don't know if it's holiday driven.

[01:11:49] I don't know if it's, you know, all the other things we talked about.

[01:11:51] Hunting season, football season.

[01:11:53] Um, you know, yeah.

[01:11:55] I mean, it's probably started from some agrarian, you know, background, but, uh, certainly for

[01:12:01] us it is, you know, we bust our ass all year long in these vineyards and then we, then we

[01:12:06] kill ourselves for months.

[01:12:08] Make it a winemaking.

[01:12:09] Yeah.

[01:12:10] Yeah.

[01:12:10] And then for, I know for sure the wine business, everybody's like, you know, I need a nap.

[01:12:15] Yeah.

[01:12:15] But, uh, yeah.

[01:12:16] That's the true vineyard owners have to then get back into the vineyard to start doing winter

[01:12:20] pruning and getting ready for it.

[01:12:21] I'm right.

[01:12:22] I was in a, that's where I was at.

[01:12:24] That's why I was late.

[01:12:24] I was actually looking at a vineyard going, okay, we got to start building our schedule for

[01:12:29] like November, December, you know?

[01:12:31] Yeah.

[01:12:31] Yeah.

[01:12:32] Yeah.

[01:12:32] Yeah.

[01:12:33] Yeah.

[01:12:34] Yeah.

[01:12:34] Well, so I know you're, you, at Rivenberg here, you're more small and, you know, focused

[01:12:40] on that quality wine, more of a cult style.

[01:12:43] Do you do any kind of distribution or are there ways that people could taste your wine if they

[01:12:47] don't necessarily come here?

[01:12:48] Um, we're in a few different restaurants.

[01:12:51] Okay.

[01:13:01] With brands that jumped into distribution really quick.

[01:13:04] Yeah.

[01:13:04] Um, you know, you, I'm very luckily to have been involved in those things and maybe that's

[01:13:10] why I'm a little reluctant to do it, to do it now with Rivenberg or with Kerbal Hills.

[01:13:14] Um, I, I, I consider myself, uh, I'll tell you, sir.

[01:13:20] So I call it the good prom date theory.

[01:13:22] Okay.

[01:13:22] Right.

[01:13:23] Uh, and this is like what I tell my 14 year old daughter too.

[01:13:28] Now we're now just now starting to have these conversations.

[01:13:29] It's like, you got to employ the good prom date theory, right?

[01:13:32] Like I'm not running around chasing a date.

[01:13:35] Yeah.

[01:13:36] Right.

[01:13:36] I, I make a quality product.

[01:13:38] We make it at a very reasonable price.

[01:13:41] Um, I think our pricing and our wine is, is way more reasonably priced for what you're

[01:13:45] getting than a lot of wines out there that I personally feel are subpar to ours.

[01:13:49] Um, but we're good prom date.

[01:13:52] We're not running around looking for a date.

[01:13:54] We're not running around looking for people to pick us up.

[01:13:56] Uh, if they, if they reach out to us, um, and say, man, John, I had your wine somewhere.

[01:14:02] I would love to have it in my restaurant.

[01:14:03] We will move heaven and earth to make sure that they get it.

[01:14:06] So that's, that's kind of how we approach it.

[01:14:08] Right.

[01:14:09] So, you know, selective, right.

[01:14:11] And it's mostly selective around people making the effort to come to us.

[01:14:14] I don't feel like I, I, I, how can I, I'm not going to go around begging and pleading

[01:14:20] for people to put my stuff in a play.

[01:14:21] Like I feel, I think more highly of myself than that.

[01:14:24] And that may be the wrong way to look at it.

[01:14:26] Sure.

[01:14:27] But that's how I look at it.

[01:14:28] I hear you.

[01:14:29] So, you know, Russ Birtwell, Cabernet Grill, they've carried my wines for a very long time.

[01:14:34] They're one of the few places in that part of the world that have it.

[01:14:37] Right.

[01:14:37] Um, 10, 11 Bistro here in town, Francisco's here in town, both two real nice high-end eateries.

[01:14:44] The owners love our wines.

[01:14:46] Like, call me up and say, man, we love your wines.

[01:14:48] Can we get them in the, in the restaurants?

[01:14:50] Yep.

[01:14:51] I mean, I will move heaven and earth to make sure you have them.

[01:14:53] So that's, that's how we navigate.

[01:14:55] So as far as that, you know, um, outside of this immediate area, there's not really any

[01:15:02] spots.

[01:15:02] We're working on a few places in San Antonio.

[01:15:04] We've in and out, moved some wines through the Houston wine merchant, but it's just not,

[01:15:08] if, if I can't provide a good quality service to them, I also don't want to do

[01:15:14] Sure.

[01:15:14] Right.

[01:15:14] Like if I can't, if I can't do a good partnership and get them the wines they need, um, then I'm

[01:15:20] not, I'm not going to burden them with trying to figure that out.

[01:15:22] Yeah.

[01:15:23] Can they order on your website?

[01:15:24] You can a hundred percent order on our website.

[01:15:26] So sorry.

[01:15:26] Yeah.

[01:15:27] I should have, I should have mentioned that.

[01:15:27] But we ship all over Texas.

[01:15:29] Uh, and then, uh, we use a ship compliant so we can ship, uh, out of state as well.

[01:15:35] Um, so you can most definitely get all the Kerbal Hills wines, all the Rivenberg wines, um,

[01:15:40] shipped right to your doorstep.

[01:15:42] And if you're somewhere else, uh, you know, I've been known to drive wines to people's

[01:15:46] place just to be quite honest, you know?

[01:15:48] Yeah.

[01:15:49] Yeah.

[01:15:49] Yeah.

[01:15:49] I had a guy call me and he's like, man, I've been trying to order three cases of your wine.

[01:15:53] I've had the hardest time for some reason.

[01:15:55] And it, it ended up being a glitch in our, in our computer software and, uh, and his address.

[01:16:00] And I said, well, I'm, I'm driving past there in two weeks.

[01:16:03] I'll be happy to bring it to you.

[01:16:04] He's like, are you serious?

[01:16:05] Yeah.

[01:16:06] Why not?

[01:16:06] I mean, it's three cases of wine.

[01:16:08] Yeah.

[01:16:09] So I swung by, ate a burger with the guy, dropped some wines off and, uh, yeah, made a,

[01:16:13] made a friend and, and, uh, he didn't know me from Adam.

[01:16:16] He just heard about how great my wines were.

[01:16:18] So yeah.

[01:16:19] So he ordered some.

[01:16:19] So anyway, yeah, you can order them.

[01:16:21] We'll ship them out.

[01:16:22] Well, do you have any plans for future growth for Rivenberg wines?

[01:16:26] Um, what do you foresee in the future?

[01:16:29] You know, we are, um, we have some pretty interesting growth plans.

[01:16:36] We're trying to fight through some things that were kind of backlogged from the last couple

[01:16:40] of harvests.

[01:16:41] Um, but you know, growth wise, I really, uh, I don't see us growing Rivenberg wine as a

[01:16:52] brand, right?

[01:16:54] Uh, much more than the 2,500 cases or so that we make every year for it.

[01:16:59] Um, it, it's not modeled that way.

[01:17:04] Right.

[01:17:05] Um, so I don't see any growth plans in that regard, but I mean, I, I have so many things

[01:17:11] going on that we have massive growth plans for that, you know, are, are different things.

[01:17:15] Yeah.

[01:17:16] Um, so, but no, for Rivenberg wine, I think it'll always be in that, you know, 2,500 case.

[01:17:22] The one thing that we may end up doing is, uh, next year we wanted to look at really structuring

[01:17:28] a specific wine club for that.

[01:17:30] Okay.

[01:17:30] Um, like an allocation list, like an allocation list.

[01:17:33] Yeah.

[01:17:33] And the goal would be to, the goal would be to produce it, have an allocation list.

[01:17:38] That's the club.

[01:17:39] And that's all we do.

[01:17:40] And then if you come up here, you have to be on that allocation list or in that club.

[01:17:45] And that allows us to kind of control things around our primary business, which is the

[01:17:50] incubator allows us to more focus on that regard.

[01:17:53] Yeah.

[01:17:54] So we're not chasing things.

[01:17:55] Gotcha.

[01:17:55] Yeah.

[01:17:56] That, that would be, that, that's probably the next thing that we're going to try and

[01:17:59] do.

[01:17:59] And I hope, and maybe I'm being, you know, maybe I'm being too optimistic, but I, I would

[01:18:03] imagine we could do an allocation list of 2,500 cases.

[01:18:07] Yeah.

[01:18:07] I would hope, I mean, my God, I've been doing this so long.

[01:18:09] I would hope I could get, I would hope I could get that done.

[01:18:13] Um, but that, that would be our goal for that.

[01:18:15] Yeah.

[01:18:15] See where it goes from there.

[01:18:16] See where it goes from there.

[01:18:17] I mean, it would, if I do that, I can tell you that's where it would go.

[01:18:20] Like, and then they just, the allocation list would get cooler and cooler and cooler.

[01:18:24] 10 years down the road, people were like, man, how did you get on that?

[01:18:27] Well, John's crazy.

[01:18:28] It's the waiting list again.

[01:18:30] Yeah.

[01:18:31] Yep.

[01:18:31] Somebody has got to, you know, inherit that membership, if you will.

[01:18:35] Yeah.

[01:18:35] So there are a lot of places that people can go get great wine in Texas.

[01:18:40] Um, what really is the thing in your opinion that sets Rivenberg wines apart?

[01:18:44] Um, that makes it special that, that Lister would say, man, I gotta, I gotta move that

[01:18:48] to the top of my list.

[01:18:48] I really need to make an effort to get out there and check it out and take those wines.

[01:18:52] Um, I would say one of the thing that makes us most special is, you know, we're, and my,

[01:19:01] my hesitancy is I hate sounding like an egomaniac, but I'm going to, we're, we're the epicenter

[01:19:06] of wine.

[01:19:07] Um, we are, we have been stylistically crafting and shaping Texas wine and what it is for a long

[01:19:14] time.

[01:19:15] Um, you're going to come here and you're going to have a quality wine and a quality

[01:19:19] experience every time you come.

[01:19:22] Um, it may not be what you want.

[01:19:25] We may not be there, the place for everybody, but everybody's welcome.

[01:19:29] Yeah.

[01:19:29] You know, um, you may come in here thinking it's not the place that you want to be and

[01:19:33] wind up like never wanting to leave.

[01:19:35] We have that happen a lot.

[01:19:37] Um, so you're, the reason to come to Ravenberg wine is you'll experience things that you will,

[01:19:44] and I can guarantee you, you will not experience in any other place.

[01:19:47] You won't.

[01:19:48] We're the only incubator in the state.

[01:19:50] The only place where you may stumble in and see five or six other winemakers that you read

[01:19:54] about on a regular basis hanging out.

[01:19:55] Yeah.

[01:19:56] Um, you were the only place where you're going to taste some varietals.

[01:20:00] Um, and, and again, I think we just make really, really quality wines and that's, that's where,

[01:20:09] that's where our focus is.

[01:20:10] And so, yeah, you know, come here.

[01:20:15] You're going to get to take, you're going to get to, you know, as my, as my good friend,

[01:20:17] Chris Brunder coined me, um, a few years ago, he goes, you know, John, you're the most famous

[01:20:22] winemaker nobody's ever heard of.

[01:20:25] I love that.

[01:20:26] Right.

[01:20:26] Some days it drives me absolutely fucking crazy.

[01:20:29] Some days I love it.

[01:20:30] Right.

[01:20:31] But you're going to get to come here and you're going to get to meet, or as Neil Newsom puts it,

[01:20:35] you're going to get to meet the Oz of Texas wine.

[01:20:38] I love those things.

[01:20:39] Right.

[01:20:39] Like they may be backhanded compliments, but they're based in some kind of reality.

[01:20:44] Right.

[01:20:44] And so I love those things, man.

[01:20:46] And I love those guys.

[01:20:47] So both of those people are, are, are, are dear friends.

[01:20:50] Um, so yeah, you're going to get,

[01:20:52] if you come, if you take the effort to come down and visit Kerrville, uh, and visit Rivenberg

[01:20:57] wine, you're going to have an experience that you'll have nowhere else in the state.

[01:21:01] I can promise you that.

[01:21:10] The epicenter of wine in Texas.

[01:21:13] Well, for sure.

[01:21:14] Uh, you're going to taste great wines when you go to Rivenberg wine, but John has had his

[01:21:19] hand in so many different projects.

[01:21:21] It's been so influential for so many of the great wineries that we have in Texas, especially

[01:21:27] in the Hill country region.

[01:21:28] So he definitely is a wizard of what he does and has a lot of influence and help, especially

[01:21:34] managing that Texas growers association there.

[01:21:37] And so it's definitely a true artist that he is.

[01:21:41] So when you go to taste your wine there, you know, you're getting something special and

[01:21:44] unique.

[01:21:45] Now make sure to check out their website before you go.

[01:21:48] It's www.rivenbergwine.com.

[01:21:52] That's R I V E N B U R G H W I N E.com.

[01:21:59] There, you're going to see things like information about John and his bio.

[01:22:02] You'll see information about some of the projects that he's working on information on his consulting

[01:22:08] and incubator services that he provides, as well as information about the tasting room there,

[01:22:13] at R I V I N B U R G W I N E.com.

[01:22:15] What to expect when you go and a link to purchase those great wines there on the website.

[01:22:20] And don't forget, when you go to see them, make sure you tell them you heard about them

[01:22:24] on this podcast, Texas undervine.

[01:22:27] Now, after the interview concluded and I shut off all the cameras, John looked at me with

[01:22:31] a little gleam in his eye and he said, Hey, you want to go taste something cool?

[01:22:35] Well, of course I do.

[01:22:37] You can't answer that question with a no.

[01:22:39] So he led me out to the tasting room real quickly, got me settled in at the bar to start

[01:22:44] going through the normal tasting of the wines.

[01:22:46] But John disappeared back into the production facility.

[01:22:49] Now, as I started my way through tasting some of these awesome wines that he has on his tasting

[01:22:53] menu, ever so often, John would pop out of the production facility and he was carrying

[01:22:57] a test tubes and beakers and things with all kinds of different fun wines that he's working

[01:23:03] on that haven't been released yet.

[01:23:04] He even brought me one that was still in the fermentation process and hadn't even completed

[01:23:09] fermentation yet.

[01:23:10] He's like, here, try this.

[01:23:11] It was really cool to get a window in to seeing the process that goes into all the winemaking

[01:23:17] stuff beyond just the final things that you get in the bottle.

[01:23:21] He's definitely a mad scientist running back and forth, going to these great wines and bringing

[01:23:26] them out to the customers to try.

[01:23:27] It was really a treat as a wine enthusiast to get that behind the scenes view into that winemaking

[01:23:34] process and taste those different things.

[01:23:36] But of course, it came down to the end of the tasting and I needed to pick one bottle for

[01:23:41] my episode library.

[01:23:42] And when all was said and done, I had to choose the red wine blend that he has here.

[01:23:49] It's just a red blend.

[01:23:50] It's beautiful red and dark fruits, just a luscious, silky flavor.

[01:23:54] It had some really cool spice notes coming in over the top throughout the tasting.

[01:23:59] Really enjoyed this one.

[01:24:00] John even signed the bottle for me for the episode.

[01:24:03] Thank you, John.

[01:24:04] So I brought one of these home.

[01:24:06] Matter of fact, don't tell anybody, but I purchased several bottles of it because I wanted to take

[01:24:09] some to drink as well.

[01:24:11] Very great wine.

[01:24:12] Make sure you check out that red wine when you go to visit them yourself.

[01:24:15] All right.

[01:24:16] Well, that brings us to the end of season two.

[01:24:19] But even though, like I said, this season is ending, we are not done.

[01:24:23] There are many other great wine destinations still to visit and to bring to you the listener

[01:24:29] and the taster.

[01:24:30] So I'll be back in season three after the holiday break.

[01:24:34] So look for that coming up in January for the next episode to be released.

[01:24:38] I've already got several recorded and really excited to bring you some great stuff starting

[01:24:42] in season three as well.

[01:24:44] And if you're enjoying this content, would you do me a favor and leave me a rating and review

[01:24:48] for the podcast?

[01:24:49] I'm two seasons in.

[01:24:50] This is episode 52 and I only have a handful of people who have reviewed and rated the podcast.

[01:24:55] And you don't really realize that it is free, but it does help me a ton.

[01:25:01] It helps get the podcast up in the rating so other people who might be interested in Texas

[01:25:05] wine can actually find it, learn more about these great places, come to visit, taste great

[01:25:10] wines and elevate the Texas wine industry.

[01:25:12] So it's a simple thing to do for you, but it makes a world of difference for me and my

[01:25:17] efforts and what I do here.

[01:25:18] So thank you so much.

[01:25:20] If you would go out and leave me that great rating and review, wherever you get the podcast.

[01:25:24] And if you're watching this on YouTube, make sure to like subscribe and follow the podcast

[01:25:29] there.

[01:25:29] And if you would leave me a comment down below on YouTube.

[01:25:34] So if you've been to Rivenberg wine, tell me what was your favorite wine that you had when

[01:25:39] you were there in the comments.

[01:25:40] Or if you haven't been yet, tell me after listening to the interview, what's the thing

[01:25:45] you're most excited about when you do go visit them?

[01:25:47] Just leave that in the comments down below there on YouTube.

[01:25:49] And with that, my time is up.

[01:25:52] So don't forget, subscribe to the podcast and follow my socials to be notified anytime a brand

[01:25:58] new episode is released.

[01:25:59] And until then, happy trails and bottoms up, y'all.

[01:26:03] Thanks for two great seasons.

[01:26:09] Thanks for listening to Texas Undervine.

[01:26:12] We strive to provide you with the best information about wine businesses all over Texas.

[01:26:17] Be sure to check out our website at texasundervine.com and follow us on our socials at Texas Undervine

[01:26:23] to stay up on all the upcoming episodes.

[01:26:25] Please email us with any suggestions or feedback.

[01:26:28] Also, contact us if you're interested in donating, sponsoring, or advertising on the

[01:26:33] podcast just to help us cover our expenses and bring even more great info to you in future

[01:26:37] episodes.

[01:26:38] Above all, travel safely and most especially, drink responsibly.

[01:26:52] Howdy, Vine Trippers.

[01:26:54] Did you know that I now have a merchandise store for Texas Undervine?

[01:26:57] I only have a handful of limited items, but you can go check those out and wear your Texas

[01:27:01] Undervine swag if you'd like to tell all your friends about the great wine locations we have

[01:27:06] here in Texas and maybe get them interested in the podcast as well.

[01:27:09] So there are things like t-shirts, there's a hoodie, there's a beanie, a ball cap, things

[01:27:15] like that.

[01:27:15] But one of the most exciting things I have right now is my limited time offer t-shirt

[01:27:19] that's my season one t-shirt.

[01:27:22] So this is your Tasting Through Texas, Texas Undervine season one t-shirt.

[01:27:25] It's only going to be available for a little short amount of time.

[01:27:28] On the back, it has all the different locations like a band tour t-shirt.

[01:27:32] So this is a limited time item and you can go out and get it now.

[01:27:36] And one of the great things about that t-shirt is a portion of every sale goes to support the

[01:27:41] Texas Hill Country Winery Scholarship Fund.

[01:27:44] So you know that by buying that t-shirt, you're also investing in the growing and flourishing

[01:27:49] of an amazing wine industry here in Texas and all of those people that are going to come

[01:27:53] and make it even better.

[01:27:55] Check out that merchandise store.

[01:27:56] It's on my website at TexasUnderVine.com.

[01:27:59] Just go up to the top.

[01:27:59] You'll see the link for the merchandise store.